VJing around adversity

[smacfx]

Hi everybody.

I'm posting this here as I'm devastated and the only place I feel I can come is here. and I'm not sure where else to post it.
My name's steve and I'm a VJ from Adelaide , Australia. The most common thing I hear in Australia is "what the hell is a VJ". I'v been VJ'ing in some way for almost three years. I,v VJ'd for Ronnie Size, MC Dynamite, Andrew Farley, Alec Shazalar just to name a few. I'v worked so hard to no end over here to get the recognistion I'm getting (and the Gigs).
I runa Mac with Arkaos and an evolution midi teamed up with multiple cams etc. (sometimes up to 12 camer'as). I absolutely love what I do and give 190% 24-7. The pursuit of VJ'ing has cost me considerably over the years (including my marriage).
My problem is I had the worst gig of my life last night. First I put around 47 hrs into prep work into this gig. I got to the gig and the promoter had forgotten about me and said if I do it for nothing I have the gig. Well I said no worries as I had done the prep and was there ready to go. I'v worked this club before (as a VJ) and had difficult adapting their (dinasaur) video sytem to mine. Half thier stuff was faulty or too messed up to figure out in the 20 min I ahd to set up. One of the promoters told me fix it or he'll go off. I could not fix it.
I spent hrs getting ready, I was pumped. I had to pack my gear and go home 30 min into the gig. I have yet to meet another VJ. I believe in VJ'ing and it;'s future here in Adelaide. I think i could not have done anything better.
I say all this because as a VJ in this city i just (once again) got kicked in the teeth and it comes back to the same old thing "what the hell is a VJ".

[videoteque]

I don't understand the name of the thread!!! :confused:

But I understand your point... Except in very few places where VJing is considered standar and they are ready (mentally and technically) to receive it, in the rest of the world VJing means dealing with a lot of work, infinite difficulties and little reward.

I see VJing as the cherry on the cake. When everything else is working, good music, lot of punters, nice sound, ambient, etc. etc. THEN it can be taken seriously the fact of adding projectors, screens and the VJ.

I have live situations similar to the one you told and know that I am with you!!! :P

[holly]

Dude, it sounds like you have had a bad time with this last promoter-- at the very least bad communication....

...but to say you lost a spouse because of VJing... there is something wrong, more than just the VJ business.

What is happening? What are you doing? You either need to make this work for you or give it a rest. Can you move to a larger city with more (corporate) oportunities? Raves and clubs are shit, no contract, no consequences, no future! What are other opportunities for the same gear and knowledge? Weddings? Funerals? Churches? Schools?

If your art is getting in the way of your life and happiness it is time to cut off the ear and send it to your ex in the mail.

Serious. What are you doing.

[jayacosta]

Originally posted by holly

If your art is getting in the way of your life and happiness it is time to cut off the ear and send it to your ex in the mail.

Serious. What are you doing.

Man, that's a little cold.
You've got to look at playing live as being on the battlefield. The tech is the first part that needs to be overcome and it sounds like SMAC knows what he's doing. That's a good start.
The next (and really difficult) part is the giant pissing contest that happens every night at any live venue. I've spent a lot of time working live gigs in a bunch of different capacities. Sooner or later, if you stick it out, you learn that everyone involved in the production of events has something to prove. If they didn't have anything to prove they'd be carpet salesmen and bus drivers.
But if you keep at it and love what you do, you notice eventually that the bad ones burn themselves out. So don't worry about them.
As for playing smaller towns, it has it's benefits. Big cities just mean bigger ego's. VJing is still new to most people and they don't think it's important- that doesn't change from one town to the next. If you want to be a corporate shill, feel free to move to any large urban center and flake out all you want.

[VJFranzK]

you've come to the right message board.
First off, DONT GIVE UP! Bad nights "just happen" sometimes. ( And sometimes, end up turning good, eventually )

I know what you mean, in the USA, we also hear that question too often. The battle to "enlighten" the public is long and difficult, but it can also be great to be unique, in a place with fewer VJ's!

I sometimes remember the saying: "pearls before swine" - some venues, or promoters, or audiences just can't apreciate quality when it is offered. ( forget the bastards, move on. )

Either you can lower to the tastes of the crowd, or else find a new group better able to apreciate the type of work you really want to do!

(It's small consolation, but the content you've prepared is ready for another show, later on)

[holly]

Originally posted by jayacosta
You've got to look at playing live as being on the battlefield. ... the giant pissing contest that happens every night at any live venue.... if you stick it out, you learn that everyone involved in the production of events has something to prove.
Oh, yes Jay. What was I thinking. Proving you're a man and measuring your penis is SO much more important than friends or family.:rolleyes: Of course what I meant to say was "Definitely keep returning to the same abusive situation. Don't ever think about how you approach the business (gig for free when you are not wanted, is that smart business?). Eventually you will show that promoter that you are a MAN! Show that bitch ex-wife too! a MAN never corrects course midstream or asks for directions.... a MAN doesn't have to think.... A MAN just keeps ramming until something breaks! HHyea! VJing is a MANsport like rugby and boxing!!! Not that pussy-soaked making good money through corporate sponsors and a contract bullshit...."
:scared: :jester: :punch:

;) Smac, that was actually sarcasm aimed at Jay.

Everyone can have a shit night because of a disorganized promotor.... But saying you lost a spouse because of VJing? This is not the first time this is a problem -- or maybe that just slipped and you didn't really mean it. It can feel like the whole world dumps on you at once sometimes.... It sounds like you've had some decent gigs. Ever thought of partnering with some friends to control your own night?

[asterix]

Dude - get out of the clubs and into the forrest doofs where you can get appreciated.
Australia is way behind the rest of the world. Darwin club promoters are just discovering house music... and are occasionally allowing it to be slotted in between 'my sharona' and 'nutbush'. Try explaining to them the concept of psytrance/ breaks or anything that isn't windowed into the term 'techno'. I visited the big clubs in Sydney when I was there last and they had milkdrop running on a wall.
By the way - the fact your probably tucked into some dark corner of the dance floor isn't helping you get cred. Try running your name up on the screen with 'live visual broadcast' or something.
And all that jazz with your promoter - fuck em. Thier club promoters. They're mostly the same! Next time be on the ball and lock them into a contract.

[DrEskaton]

also, doesn't Adelaide have a lot of festivals? WOMAD and all that? You might find live video performance more appreciated at festivals tha clubs there.

try your luck at doing visuals for live bands as well (working with the band to develop visuals for specific songs).

Don't give up, yeah Australia is behind but there are some good crews in Sydney and Melbourne, I'm sure if you take a trip to Sydney you could meet a few and get some ideas and encouragement.

[jayacosta]

Originally posted by holly
VJing is a MANsport like rugby and boxing!!! Not that pussy-soaked making good money through corporate sponsors and a contract bullshit...."
:scared: :jester: :punch:


Sorry if I hit a nerve. I didn't mean to start a big fight.
If you bothered to check out my work, or knew me at all, you would know that I'm not some caveman looking for a head to bash in.
Thanks for making me feel welcome.

[holly]

Thanks for making me feel welcome. Aw dude. That's what the smileys were for.;)

Thanks for insulting my suggestions for getting a PAYING vj gig. Do you always respond to differing opinions with passive-aggression? No harm no foul, but guilt trips tend to work better on people who aren't so "cold".:P

[jayacosta]

No guilt trip intended Holly. I was just expressing my distaste for avant-car-commercial vjing. There isn't anything wrong with getting paid, I just think it's better to be working in a way that inspires you enough that you would do it even if you weren't getting paid.
It's just my humble opinion.
passive-agression, lol.

[Rovastar]

Welcome to VJC/F,

You don't only have to come here when things go bad. :)

Obviously you have been having a bad time of it atm. It is often difficult for many of us here to make a proper living from VJing. I think very few a making it properly just doing gigs, etc. Most have other jobs or have work in related fields be it equipment hire or graphic design, etc. Some just do it for little monetary gain as that is not important to them.

Adelaide, Australia is not that small a place approx 1,120,000 people.

Maybe they are not all that visually aware but the size of the city is reasonable.

There are other VJs in Adelaide too. I know it is not a good guide but those who actually say the city they are from on the VJForums messageboards about 15 say they are from Adelaide.

Even a fairly regular poster Levon (http://www.vjcentral.com/members/view/id/8890) is from there. I don't know how much work there is in the area but I guess by the population size there is some.

There are various options that people use to get more work for there money. Middle America VJ complain sometimes about no work, etc but I know of people there who don?t even call themselves VJs that do visuals for School reunions for the class of 85, etc and get paid $400 for it. Easy money they say. Think outside the box.

There are however a couple of things to minimize your pain with situations like this in the future.

?First I put around 47 hrs into prep work into this gig. I got to the gig and the promoter had forgotten about me and said if I do it for nothing I have the gig. Well I said no worries as I had done the prep and was there ready to go?

Now to be frank I am seeing a lot wrong with this. Why on Earth do you put 47 hours (that is like 6.5 days of 9-5 work) into a gig creating custom content and have no deposit/contract or at least a good relationship with the promoter.

Personally I would not do this. A few hours maybe for a gig of custom stuff but not 47!!! If they are wanting that much stuff then a 50% deposit is what is required for the content creation and paying yourself a decent wage too like what a graphic designer would do. If they cannot pay don?t do the work.

You can still make stuff but do it for YOU. Stuff that will work in (m)any gigs. Stuff that you want to do. Post it on the Internet or something if you want. Don?t do stuff for a promoter that doesn?t want to pay you and doesn?t want you there. :/

And then when he said he cannot pay you - you have created a load of stuff for his gig and he forgot and he still wants you to play.
What do you do?
You should walk.

Personally I would not say ?No Worries? it set IMHO the precedent for the promoter to do this again and again and again.

Politely say I am trying to make a living out of this and I have put in x hours for this gig in prep work.

Let me now quote SleepyTom Something to take note of

Originally posted by sleepytom
if you do video production for less per hour than the guy that cleans the toilet you can expect to be treated like the guy who cleans the toilet or worse.

[holly]

:cheers: Beers for you Jay! I agree! A job that is just for money stanks.

I am working on a contract for a SIX WEEK tour. Maybe I am next to lose the spouse...
:sad:

Edited because somehow Rova wrote a REALLY long entry before I could hit the POST button.:eek:

Adilade has 1.25 million people??? There must be opportunities outside technically-challanged clubs.

[Rovastar]

Originally posted by holly
:cheers:

I am working on a contract for a SIX WEEK tour. Maybe I am next to lose the spouse...
:sad:

Your other half would be too scared to leave you. ;)

[fluchtpunkt]

Originally posted by smacfx
My problem is I had the worst gig of my life last night. First I put around 47 hrs into prep work into this gig. I got to the gig and the promoter had forgotten about me and said if I do it for nothing I have the gig. Well I said no worries as I had done the prep and was there ready to go. I'v worked this club before (as a VJ) and had difficult adapting their (dinasaur) video sytem to mine. Half thier stuff was faulty or too messed up to figure out in the 20 min I ahd to set up. One of the promoters told me fix it or he'll go off. I could not fix it.

...a lot of important points have already been mentioned...

...

personally i vj because i love the entire process of the work it entails. it is something that fulfills me. it makes me happy.

i cherish what i do, ...and thus i expect people to respect and value what i do, too. if i feel promoter does not value my work (enough) then i will not work with/for him/her anymore. because if my work is not appreciated then it is not worth the effort and heartblood for me, ...and it obviously isn't for the promoter either.
money is just one possible way of showing that someone values your work. if i don't get money (and i still do free gigs occasionally) then i expect the promoter to value my work even more and really want me to perform!
forgetting about you, not apologizing, telling you that you can perform if you sort out all technical problems with their shitty equipment, and not telling you they want you to perform, ...is not valuing your work or efforts at all! ...he basically framed the situation as if he were doing you a favor by letting you perform!! in a situation like that you absolutely have to say 'stop!' and put things straight! you didn't do this, bought into his frame... feeling depressed and devastated later on is only a logical consequence imo. this is about self-respect. if you fail at this then people - even otherwise nice and supportive people - will take advantage of you, will walk over you, ...or even worse, simply ignore you. it is your job to show people your worth. if you don't then you cannot blame them for remaining (in your eyes) 'ignorant'. ...why would you say 'no worries'? yes worries!!! you invested a lot of time and energy and he simply forgot you. a sincere apology would have been due. why play for free? he forgot not you! at the very least you should have insisted to get payed if the night made a profit (thus the promoter has no risk). if you cannot trust him to not cheat on you about the night making a profit then you imo shouldn't be working with him in the first place.
...
if you do things right, then it shouldn't even come as far as your situation (though i'm sure almost everyone has some similar experience). show your passion. engage people. make sure they look at your visuals. ask for feedback. ask what they have in mind for that specific party. if you show no interest in their work (organizing a party, djing, rigging, ....) why should you expect them to do so for you?
hosting a party (and as vj you are also a part of the hosts) is about creating a space and a vibe that captivates people. it is practically impossible to do this successfully if the people involved do not work as a team.
which leads me to the question: if you invested 47hrs(!!?) into this gig, how could the promoter possibly forget about you? why were you not in close contact with him coordinating your preparations with his? a short phone call ~1week and ~1day before a gig are an absolute minimal investment one should never forget. why did you (apparently) only show up minutes before the gig? when you invest so much time into a gig you show up as early as possible - no excuses.
i can see how this must have been a devastating experience. but the hard and simple truth is: things like this usually don't just happen. make the best out of it and learn from it.

...

if i got it all wrong, there's nothing you might have done wrong and it's essentially all the promoters' fault then there's only one solution: cut your losses as soon as possible and work with people who are supportive.

[fluchtpunkt]

..two more short thoughts:

absolutely do not give 190% 24/7!
it isn't possible. you'r fooling yourself. you will burn out sooner rather than later. vjing should be fun. overworking yourself to the point of permanent physical and emotional exhaustion is not fun.

be prepared!
ideally you should have an (several) adapter for every conceivable video cable. always check the technical specs of the rig in a club in advance.

[Kyle]

Originally posted by holly
:cheers: Beers for you Jay! I agree! A job that is just for money stanks.


Holly takes boys and turns them into men....

swoon:love: