How much to charge a Corporate drinks company ?

[dreamteck]

Last week an Alcoholic Drinks comany promo person approached me to incorporate some stuff into my live mix. LOGO and a few other images.

I asked the promo person what was the deal was with the promoter and venue but they didn't know the finer details on who was paying for what and said i wasn't obligated to do it.

I ran it through the promoter who employs me and tried to get him to get THEM to pay my fee + extra :) He said no-one was paying anyone so took his word for it *sucker hehe*

Apparantly one of the DJ's is sponsored by this company and the Promo was to revolve around this DJ doing a 1 hour special set (on their podium set-up.)

Anyway... i had a week so decided to put in some effort and used the logo/images mixed with the DJ in an intense mix and now they want the footage on DVD. Now what i did was pretty straight forward stuff BUT they were extremely happy with the result.

They asked me how much it would cost so told them i'd think about it.

PROBLEM is the output video is 512X384 with no sound and I only recorded about 10 minutes worth lol

If i had known they wanted the full live effect I would have obviously done things differently with better quality being a priorety and planning for an unbroken 1 hour mix WITH sound even.

I guess this shouldn't be a problem because she said it will only be used to show their Marketing Managers in-house on how they can Promote similar stuff in the future.

They'll be getting in touch with me very soon and seem very keen to maybe use me for future stuff. (This is the impression i got)

What to charge ? How would you go about it :confused:

[Kyle]

Charge out the ass!

[dreamteck]

do you mean a lot ?

[Kyle]

Yea...charge as much as you can. We do corporate stuff in Spain. Sell yourself to them if you can and if you do custom work or animations for them you can really make some decent money.

[dreamteck]

yeah i'd like to do that, but i still don't know how to price it... $500.00 $1000.00 $2000.00 i have no idea.

[DrEskaton]

You can probably charge at least $2000 Aus for it.

Keep in mind that marketing managers are used to paying $$$$ for anything to do with video and television.

Hiring an AVID suite for offline editing costs $250 Aus an hour while online editing (flame or editbox) is around $500-$600 an hour. A motion graphics designer on after effects is about $200 an hour.

So consider yourself a motion graphic designer (you are) and charge comparable rates. Charge your studio design time (you plus your computer plus your software) at $200 an hour. It took you 10 hours to design that right? There you go, $2000, she'll be right mate.

I come from a commercials visual effects and editing background and I'm originally Australian so I know those rates are about right.

[Anyone]

you should charge a daily rate for prep work
and an hourly rate for performance time.

how much exactly you should charge depends mainly on your reputation
and if your studio is an expensive area or not... (high rent, etc)
I don' know these things about you,
so can't give you a figure exactly,

but break it all down in perf time and prep time,
this should help you give them a price and justify it as well,
instead of pulling a price out of thin air...

word of advice,
even corporations like to think they are making a bargain...

Ne1

[RayV]

I would have try & figure first what exactly do they want,
than try & break down to hours / shifts (shifts here is 10 hours)
try n sort your price for a shift of:
After effect, 3d, Editing & estimate how many shifts.
dont forget to try & sort & charge for rendering time
or any other like conversion time
+ extra money for anything they else they want.
whatever is time/resources consuming for you.

every contract should have a reasnable agreement for changes fee.
some of which you should not charge.

try n get a hold of a contract for e.g from somone you know
good luck

[dreamteck]

Thanx for your input guys.

This is new ground for me and want to make the right choices.

DrEskaton check PM please :)

[dreamteck]

The client wants to factor me into their 20 week budget, appearing in venues and varying events of there choice around Oz.

WOULD $3000.00 AUS an event be asking too much for the following ? Should i ask what the budget is ? How do i play this ?
btw they're not expecting me to install screens

Just about to email them this itemised quote; but my finger cant press send yet.

a) Equipment hire. Custom 'live-music-video' console in mobile flight-case + video camera and 24 bit broadcast quality scanconverter: --- (*console price value is $15000.00*) --- $1000.00 hire fee

b) Studio design time for all Logo rendering and preparation of images/footage for live mixing; (*please note* footage is not for sale or television broadcast, but for mixing and showcase in a live performance only) --- $1000.00

c) installation and performance (VJ.performance fee) --- $1000.00

also supply off a professional photographer.


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should i send my quote itemised like this ? does it warrant my fee ? I feel it does, but maybe others won't think so? so many variables to consider...

If i'm going to gauge this right.... it's your opinions which will count most for me.

[Rovastar]

There a few ways of charging for this. I do a far bit of corp work now-a-days and they do have reasonable budgets for most things.

First thing.

When you hear about the job get the contact details of the marketing/advertising company/direct contact at the brewer.

Don't let the promoter be the middleman.

They will often send you actual logos etc and specify certain things they want displayed. They often can be picky over using exact colours and making sure there logo is display in its entirety if you have to changing it in some way (turn it into 3d animation, etc).

Most of the time they don't understand themselves what you can do. So their descriptions are very vague. I once had a lengthy confused conversation with my contact for BP & Budweiser in the states about 'vector graphics' which he wanted. I was thinking suddenly he wanted something like the iPod adverts but all he meant was regular 3D which I had done anyway.

Confirming the terminology is useful before you start.

Prices are difficult I does depend on what they want it for.

For example I know a few large-ish clubs, shops, etc that have had DVDs created for them and they are happy for ?4-7,000 for 5-10 minutes.

They don?t need longer than that for most promo DVDs.

Now this is for in-house usage (in the venue, etc)

If they start wanting to put on their record labels DVD or using it for advertising it on TV and stuff then it is a different story. It sounds like a might just be used for a promo piece but do get a contract drawn up before you do anything else.

These companies often do a lot of meeting about future promos they do. Most of the time many of them do not come off as viable projects but they like to talk anyway. Also generally they have a more limited budget for this promo work. I don?t go overboard for this promo work especially if the marketing middleman know what stuff I do.

TBH I would create a general showreel of stuff with other companies in there too. Have a load of drinks companies in there. If you want spoof the names if you are worried about it make it general. If they are honest with you about it being a promo for promo meetings then general is still fine for getting the idea. I see no problem with a watermark on this. I have done this many times before having a watermark so they cannot use it in any other setting other than the promo meeting and your name is reminding them of further. They should pay too even for promo stuff.




Another question that effects the price of any custom content is:

Who owns the work afterwards?

If the content is fairly generic as some custom content can be. Then can you use it again in your shows, etc. Most will be cool with that. Then ask them can I resell this to other clients then* they get a little worried. They generally want custom stuff at this point sound surprised and say ?Oh, in that case it will be x amount more?

About the actual price of this animation houses etc will charge a lot per second for stuff. Same with advertising agencies. When we do stuff it is all in real-time programs so the price comparisons are not as useful at times but it is generally a couple of thousand UKP per scene we do but it all depends on who the client is, how much tax we pay (doing stuff for Microsoft recently and strange tax laws seem to be coming into play from the US not leaving much profit) and of course how much work they is likely to be in the future.

Hope it helps.

[brain]

what about your equipment besides the converter? charge a rent for laptop/peripherals - usually much less discussions about rental factors than fees!
add 20% to the rental price of external companies if you handle/pay the rent. watch that the converter is insured on site!

include that they will have to pay for/take care of travel expenses/hotel.

evaluate what companies charge for a/v technicans / live cam directors on trade fairs - you will find prices on some websites in autralia guess. take that as a BASE for your fee.

do you need to preproduce for EVERY event? or does it make sense to have all the PP upfront?

have them pay some advance expenses for PP and rentals before your first gig. make sure you will not be sitzing on costs for months until they pay.

good luck!

[Rovastar]

Originally posted by dreamteck
The client wants to factor me into their 20 week budget, appearing in venues and varying events of there choice around Oz.

WOULD $3000.00 AUS an event be asking too much for the following ? Should i ask what the budget is ? How do i play this ?
btw they're not expecting me to install screens

Just about to email them this itemised quote; but my finger cant press send yet.

a) Equipment hire. Custom 'live-music-video' console in mobile flight-case + video camera and 24 bit broadcast quality scanconverter: --- (*console price value is $15000.00*) --- $1000.00 hire fee

b) Studio design time for all Logo rendering and preparation of images/footage for live mixing; (*please note* footage is not for sale or television broadcast, but for mixing and showcase in a live performance only) --- $1000.00

c) installation and performance (VJ.performance fee) --- $1000.00

also supply off a professional photographer.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

should i send my quote itemised like this ? does it warrant my fee ? I feel it does, but maybe others won't think so? so many variables to consider...

If i'm going to gauge this right.... it's your opinions which will count most for me.

All this was posted since I started my last reply.

Ok.

Sounds like things are moving nicely for you.

I personaly would keep the content creation and performance seperate.

I don't undersatnd how you can charge it for each night.

What about travel and accomadation?

Are you footing the bill?

Edit also I charge 50% upfront for custom content most are happy to pay this.

[dreamteck]

Originally posted by Rovastar
All this was posted since I started my last reply.


I don't undersatnd how you can charge it for each night.



good point, i did that so if i have to lower my price i can say i wont be making that much custom new stuff and shave that off , because if i have to come down a bit i don't want to look like i'm settling if you know what i mean.

well i shot off the email. *nerves*

I'll keep yous all posted on my social experiment. :nod:

if i don't reply again.... you can all have a little cry for me :o

[dreamteck]

Originally posted by brain


do you need to preproduce for EVERY event? or does it make sense to have all the PP upfront?



I don't know this yet mate.. but if i do have to, i've covered myself somewhat with the way i prised it.

[dreamteck]

*UPDATE*

okay seesm i might have prised myself out of the LIVE gig because they've got back to me with a different approach.

Now They would like the footage i have of their sponsored DJ's on a DVD to use at different venues simultaneously on weekends. The dvd will be 15 minutes looped with LOGO work.

I'm thinking of pricing it like this.

$550.00 per DVD IF each DVD is authored ONLY for the particular venue it's played at. (to avoid mass copying it and playing it EVERYWHERE.)

* This way if it's being played at 5 venues around Australia every weekend, it will be 5 X $550.00

They're also suggesting footage to be used at MTV partys. (more on this later)

If they don't agree to individual DVDS for different venues, then I'm thinking of pricing the DVD at $7000.00 since it will be used for approx. 20 weeks.



Comments please :confused: :)

[asterix]

Yep thats the way to go about it. Charge them a per usage rate.

But I think you'd gain more by reproducing from scratch at a higher res hey? And maybe then you can charge a higher price.

Then offer a mass produced miniDVD so they can distribute it as a promo gift to the crowd and outside the event? (brands like deisel are doing this successfully).

After all - Marketers like to see volume volume volume.
Then send the bastards up to darwin so I can milk em too! :)

[dreamteck]

Originally posted by asterix

But I think you'd gain more by reproducing from scratch at a higher res hey? And maybe then you can charge a higher price.


hmmm and it was put to me if i wanted to hold a special shoot in a studio enviroment to redo a mix on various djs. food for thought .
[/B][/QUOTE]

Originally posted by asterix

Then send the bastards up to darwin so I can milk em too! :)

haha :)

I've done a corporate gig before and the money came SO easily that i thought it would always be like that.... i.e Corporates approaching me and demanding to have me for whatever promo/gig whatnot !

I havn't 'chased' the market though to really know if it really can be that GOOD ! (if it is then a lot of VJs on this forum are keeping it to themselves:P , me i love to tell the world because i'm strange this way) .............however back on track I think this is definately the future for us who continue with this expensive hobby. We'll eventually tire from the club scene! (allready happenning to me :()

One thing that dissapoints me is the idea of VERY experienced VJ's, technically and artistically brilliant, video artists in every scence of the word (much MUCH better than myself and maybe yourself :P) who are happy working in a club enviroment for between $100.00 and $500.00 when they can obviously be worth so much more.

I'm certain there's PLENTY of cows out there to milk avs.asterix ! It's more about forming a strategy, identifying those cows and then having the confidence to deal with them when the opportunity arises, or approaching them in a professional manner and creating new markets for ourselves. These are the real challenges :)

I'm sure this is why i havn't chased this kind of market, i.e confidence, so I prefer to be approached first, but i see a definate shift in myself and if this is a success for me i'd love to be in a position to share the milk, i mean how good would that be ?

I'd be KING !!!!!!!!!!!! :)


or i can take up kick-boxing, in the end it's all relative lol

[asterix]

Sorry no cows in Darwin (unless you're talking about the female population). We're the land that coke forgot!
The biggest thing I got from a corporate sponsor - was a bar fridge from RED BULL! Too small minded in this tropical heat! I've been a graphic designer up here in the past and trying to convince people to spend money on advertising is like extracting hens teeth!
Luckily we're not in it for the money though eh!

[Rovastar]

Try and get per usage but in my experience most corps don't like that. Even TV advertings stuff they want a one off fee rather than royalities.

And remember that then you only have their word on how many times it is used.

Sensible use about the DVD for each venue. Sell it as a value added service for them.

I post ages ago about creating corp DVD below and some of the ideas may be useful when approahing this.

http://www.vjforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5992&highlight=DVD