Orginal content

[Rovastar]

I wonder how many VJ's out there are using ONLY their own material for sets.

And the stuff that is used from other people (TV clips, DVD, internet, screensaver, whatever) how much is in the public domain and allowed to played freely and how much is 'stolen' ;):)(Films, stuff without permission, etc)

Me: Original (my own) stuff or all free in the public domain or have express permission to play the stuff as a public performance.

[vjpixylight]

This has came up countless times b4, on eyecandy and elsewhere on these video forums....
Personally I really don't think it matters were it comes from, just that the quality of the clip is good, and more importantly, how well it is played with the music, is what matters to me...:cool:

[Rovastar]

I know it goes off all the time I just wondered how many actual purists there are out there. Some ppl might use dowload content that might not be noticed but would draw the line at say hollywood films.

Just with the thread about music videos and stuff I just wondered how many ppl could lieterally record 5 minutes of the set (in theory) for a music video.

Oh that advert site eye candy is not vjforums.:)

Edit: So how much of your content is your own vjpixy?

[sofarok]

Originally posted by *****
Like some school kid copying in an exam and taking the credit for work,, VJs that steal work from other producers in any form are sad bastards.

Does the same go for music producers who sample? Djs who cut up old breaks etc? What about Marcel Duchamp? Or the pop artists? I think there is difference between ripping of an hours worth of film and using 30 seconds for a loop.

[vjpixylight]

Hey brother J-
I can honestly say that I put in as many, if not more hours, in a day as any on this forum making and manipulating footage into art...If you think of that as thievery, you don't have to like it, and you are entitled to yer opinion, so you don't have to support it..
Just remember that I'm.....
"Free to do any ole thing, any ole thing that I want." holy shit!!! I just stole that song phrase, and it is now public...<ole boy I really did it now...ehhhheheh>


Chances are if you want good hi-rez video that is different enuf from the average VJ, you wont be able do any of what you accusse me of anyhow, and if you spend time with purely your own DIY creations, then I would say ole chap...that it might endup becoming a bit dry by the end of the nite..........Hmmm:o I guess I am a little more radical, than a play it by the rules or you die kinda guy>>>

[Primebase3]

100% own made sometimes sampling :it's the best way and legit sure cyber uses alot of manga though when he started out(!) but now he's also making his own. trick: start out sampling , get paid get books make your own stuff it feels alot better when your doing your "magic" on the mx/laptop

peace and progress

[Primebase3]

ps: from the knowledge gained from making your own footage you can expand..commercials ,music video's whatever LEARN USE GET PAID :D

[Rovastar]

The funnny thing about this thread is the first two people (maybe the only 2:)) that posted with there 100% real content supported are the first two I thought off.

I haven't seen any of Primebases work / noticed any comments on this issue but I guessed from his style of posts that he was 100% orginal.

I know *****'s view. :)

Also VJ Kriel from the high profile work and his arty stance he does I imagine he is 100% original too.

Primebase's view of it is fine to start with is more fine/realistic to me. Starting out cool use you anything out there (I may not like it but I understand the scorem but they will be doing smaller gigs - in theory)

If you are doing massive gigs I honestly would be careful but that is for the copyright thread.

I wasn't trying to make this thread elitist, x is more professional then because y etc.

Maybe I was just wondering where people that frequent VJ forums were 'at'. MAybe also thinking what to do with my own 'content' that is freely available and how people view others content and how/what they do with it.

Also how would others feel if their own content was used by others esp if it was a gig you could have got/wanted!!?

ANswers on a postcard please.

I used to be ok everyone could use my stuff but I'm starting to think differently.

[vjpixylight]

It is perfectly fine with me to remix others work, and I welcome anyone, even DR. J to remix mine...Nuff said...

[Rovastar]

Do you make anything at all of your own or just take others work?

Do you mix or do you just play a video tape/DVD of others work. Press play on a Accidtive Tv transambient CD or spoomething maybe a copied DVD of it.

I really hope you make it big so the orginal authors can sue and for all you have got. OR maybe someone could steal a gigs from you by play a tape of all your stuff.

You give visuals in clubs a bad name.

:sad: :sad: :sad:

[vjpixylight]

I would never use other's DVD's to play out...purely software and 80% of my own clips...
That said. I think that you staight liners are what hold VJing back...anarchy is were it is at...if you don't like it, become a damn lawyer and sue me....:alien:

[hamageddon]

Originally posted by *****
Here we go again..

Ok for the theives and brain dead morons that wan talk crap about samples and ripp being ok..

Word up
Samples = pay the royalties for the rights to use it or your a theif
Rips = theivin bastards.

like this one Mr. J.?:D

Originally posted by *****


I have a full VHS tape on the secret history of the dummy including the Roswell incident where the first human cadavers fell of target. Plane crashes and a heap of good loops available from it..
What do ya need exactly?

[vjpixylight]

Well now 100% original, goes down to 90%...I am not trying to start flame wars here, but am honest enuf with my self to know that I will never be 100% original for any of my VJ gigs...I think anyone claiming 100% original is just lieing thru their teeth:D

PPL say they are 100 %, cause it makes them feel like they are better than the rest of us...They are indeed elitest...If you truely are 100%, then I can asume that you have never used a pic or clip of a city building, park, or monument either??
Oh gorget using peeps in your shot, unless you made them too...

Rova and J,
get off your high horse, and come down to a real world place, or keep yer elitism and political backwash to your selfs...
Else it may come back to haunt you...:nod:

[Rovastar]

Originally posted by vjpixylight
I would never use other's DVD's to play out...purely software and 80% of my own clips...
That said. I think that you staight liners are what hold VJing back...anarchy is were it is at...if you don't like it, become a damn lawyer and sue me....:alien:

lol How many other 'professions' have the viewpoint of anarchy is good.

NIce to see you have some moral on what you play and how much is your own stuff.

[vjpixylight]

lol rova...I just am trying to be honest in what I do, and if more "professionals" were anarchists, then we wouldn't have to reley on the real bottom feeding scum sucker lawyers to do our battling...:)

[Primebase3]

was gonna leave the thread alone but pixy's on that vendetta shit!!! prime is a group of six and we've been together for over 4 years now(!) that's four years of hard work lots of rendertime ,filming shooting throwing your after effects/combustion book away out of PURE frustration of not getting it, fighting, almost giving up, to late at the venue because of a crash,.but also vj's coming to you with "how did you do that" to "i'm gonna quit I'm never gonna be that good" (HA) and fans saying "fuck this is the best thing I've seen when are you playing again" to the smallest venue to the more luxorious outing all about hard work. don't fucking flame me or we are going to get the first vj battle on this forum : you'll never leave this thread without shame ... I love people but I hate lies and mis truths.


that said: sure if you need a picture of a monument like ..the grand canyon or some shit like that it would suck to go all the way to the us and take a pic : that's stupid thinking . it's just WACK to make NOTHING or only 10% of your gig. that's just sad. you learn resolume download some clips and tADA your a vj. sad shit!!! in holland you wouldn't get a gig even if you promised to $@#@#@! the organiser. (self censoring is cool no?) all own shit and a concept behind it makes that stuff dope I don't like Micha Klein but he at least as my respect cos he made his ugly ass pillman on his own.


as for sampling: love that shit AS LONG AS YOU GIVE IT YOUR FLAVOUR. not just making it loop on the "beat". sample lover (make music to) it's like an instrument you make it sound/look like you want it to. took a valley of the dolls film cutout the 70s shit and made here a giant in a old godzilla flick...and that was just a sketch in Combust I threw out.


please please pixy pleaaaaaaaase do NOT even hint towards my credibility I still love you as a person man but I hate mis truths on nuthin' but assumptions

as for rova and j : you do what you do cats originalty/creativitiy makes this world a better place for real. peace !


(primebase feeling a lot better now, rolling a blunt...chilling with flash)

[Primebase3]

....uhm I'm relaxed now.... sorry for the harsh tone but it just get's to me if people even HINT towards me or my crew...it's just annoying...and very unproffesional ;)

[LEVLHED]

oh great...here goes another one of "those" threads again....


a value judgement is a value judgement is a value judgement.

I hate it when people come here and start calling names and making assumptions/threats/etc over...what? A difference in opinion?
Please, make your opinion known, own your opinion and leave it at that...
as an editor, I will not hesitate to edit/delete/ban threads or members anymore...
No, I am not GOD nor do I think I have all the answers nor do I presume any moral high ground, but I do know a thread that is ultimately detrimental to the community when I see it....I'm not seeing that here yet, but I think everyone can see where this thread could be heading.

[vjpixylight]

hey prime, and Rova and J, brother or not....
Sorry if I offended you, I wasn't making the comment to anyone personally...I have paid my dues as well, and sometimes feel the need to speak my mind...It is nothing personally, it is a metion on the competetive nature of this VJ business...I have played in A'Dam @ mazzo, and have seen plenty of other dutch VJ's live... What I see is pure competition, because of so many ppl getting into it...I can understand both J's and Rovva's points about trying to be all original...I think most VJ's do what they can to be original...I also understand the anger of less experienced VJ's not paying there dues...
But, thinking up a blank phrase like me stealing thier work is absurd...That is just pure 'ego' working there....IE>' My work is so original and good, that it must be worth stealing'... well if you feel that way, then don't make it public, and don't put it out on a tape or DVD...
I prefer the "Gratful Dead" model of: let anyone tape our shows, cause we are that good!!!!
Don't worry about who is playing who's video, It won't get you anwhere; Worry about getting the Peeps so used to seeing video all the time and everywhere, and demanding it when it isn't available...
IMHO, Much better for the collective as a whole....:)

Yea I need a blunt sometimes..and sorry bout any assumptions of you all...
:p

[Primebase3]

pix no probs : my reply was too harsh anyway , I felt kinda bad after the reply button .. so it's all good man. Lev chill man! just a little name calling didn't hurt nobody :) and could you do that?(deleting banning etc??) I think it's a good thing actually: it's a topic where a lotta vj's feel very strongly about: is a vj. making content or buying "records"? pix got it right : the vj scene in holland is almost fierce. and it's not a ego prob however but more in a breakdance battling kinda way. I like it like that because a) it forces you to make yourself extra special and b) it keeps the market stable. rookies can't start until they have work that is different from what you normally see. that's why I always hammer on the content issue because later on everywhere it's going to be that part where you can separate the "men"/"women" from the mice. in holland it's already there I guess.. the world wil follow. 2 the same products the one is going for a simple ad campaign the other for a approach that fits the target audience : who will get the money?


ps the mazzo !! it was our first spot in our city!!!! what night the saturday?

[vjpixylight]

Re mazzo: I VJ'ed with Captain Video(Kees and Rob) on their monthly there..
I think it was a thursday nite...

Yea, I have to agree with Prime on all of that...The more motivated VJ's will shine above the rest...It is all how hard are you willing to work to get there, and how much time you really want to devote to it...
The art snobbery should be left outta the mix, or else we'll end up becoming stuffy video art politicians... I am not about making VJing into a pissing contest...:p

[LEVLHED]

OK, so now that it seems ***** has (once again) made his value judgement on the whole copyright issue perfectly clear, maybe we can get back to actually answering the question?

I started out using no original content, as most VJs do...then managed to get enough original stuff together to contribute to the CDR exchange, which got me a TON of other VJs material that I had permission to use...now I'm almost to the point where I use all original stuff...

the real-world atmoshpere of the copyright issues for VJs is:
-in a live performance, anything goes...(issues of taste/tact aside)
-if you distribute a DVD/VHS as a product or something similar, you damn well better own it..

[Primebase3]

that's cool if you wanna do that I don't like the idea of someone else mixing with my hard work! it's the question again : is a vj someone that mixes his own content or is he buying records. to each his own , but if you made something and you have a residency at a venue , you swapped cdr on the exchange and somebody else goes under your price with your 48 hour render footage at the same venue? that's evil man! and you can go with your "trust your fellow man" but trust and downright handing out footage like santa is crazy! never gonna and never will just my opinion. not in holland anyway ^^ I like the idea of records/dvds though if you buy a dvd for 40 euro and a agreed statement which state that you can't undermine the workplaces of the supplier/vj ? which is also legally hard to control. I know I know it's all business with me but it's an art as well : van gogh bought a picture of picasso and a few years later it's famous under van gogh's name...picasso would scratch his ears..both :)


peace

[eXhale]

The discussion on "what is a VJ" lasted long enough *****, it has been closed and will not restart here. As I already made it quite clear on that other thread, this forum is for anyone who project visuals on or with music, period.

[LEVLHED]

*****, you ARE plainly passing judgment.....you're also turning this thread into another one of your rediculous elitist/egotistic soap-boxes...been there/done that...I think we've all had enough of it, obviously except for you...you've now made it impossible for anyone to post here without fear of being "a thieving bastard" who you've alluded to being deserving of a shotgun down the throat...really nice, man...way to foster healthy debate and conversation.

Your "debates" are anything but....and your definition of "VJ" is completely different than everyone elses... WE'VE HEARD IT ALL FROM YOU BEFORE. Anyone who hasn't just needs to look for the only closed thread on the forum....

[vjpixylight]

Originally posted by Primebase3
I know I know it's all business with me but it's an art as well : van gogh bought a picture of picasso and a few years later it's famous under van gogh's name...picasso would scratch his ears..both


peace

Pablo also recognized that business and art do not go together..:D



"The people who make art their business are mostly imposters".
-Pablo Picasso

[will]

you know how hip hop dj's battle it out, well has vj'ing reached that level cos i can see a battle here, would be pretty mental

[apu]

Yes i have to admit it, i am a theiving bastard. damn that shotgun blast was close to hitting me:) and the gun oil tastes like shit too.

Being a rank amateur I have to start somewhere. But I dont want to be a thieving bastard all my life. Thats why i walk around like a nerd/tourist with my dv cam everywhere i go so i can build my own stockpile of material.

In the meantime I watch and learn from others and sometimes take a bit of footage from tv/dvd/video/net to use, and hopefully oneday make the transition to the level of a demigod like ***** so we can all be rich enough to pay our way and be 100% legit.

Just as a matter of interest. how much do you have to pay for a minute of legit star wars footage? can the lowly vj wannbes afford to attempt to transition to legit footage?

My first ever set was 75% made from (non vj) footage i "scored" off the net, the other 25% was my own logo and text shit. I would never use another vj's work. That is lame. My next one hopefully will be 50% legit and hopefully the next one will be even more and so on and so on.

I think if you are underground as such, then anything goes to an extent. But if you are going to go big and professional then you better have your shit together or you could end up in a nasty court trial or even worse. Death by choking on a shotgun........

[vjpixylight]

....OKAY, the Pablo quote is only referenced(again nothing personal) to say that when ever business does get involved with art, then business is what dirties it..
Again, I fairly well agree with Prime and the others about wanting to protect what is there own...Noo Problem....If VJ material is traded, and played out by another VJ that didn't make it, it's not the end of the world...
Most major VJ sites on the internet do condone this...Just look at
http://www.audiovisualizers.com with their loop trading service,
and http://www.electronica-optica.com with downloadable loops made available to play out...
Even Resolume has a great database of links for sites freely putting up video archives...

*****,
I can understand that this is important to you, and probably your income as well. So you feel threatened by what you percieve as theives, taking others ppl's work, and making money with it (it isn't that easy)...It is natural to feel embattled over it. Funny thing how this business climate works..usery is a vicious cycle, and it is how our capitalistic/business world works....being proprietary means, always wanting to control and manipulate the system with rules and laws, to keep what you have...(and then some) They do it by getting lawyers to do there dirty work, and eliminating competition..
Someday you will want to pass on what you know and have learned to others, but you will be so tied up in the legallities of it all, that you won't know who to trust...

I think best, to just agree to disagree on this issue, and let bygones be bygones...

[vjpixylight]

VJC is also a place where 90% of the VJ's aren't making a living Vjing, so don't treat them like dirt, unless your wanting it in your face...

If being professional means you gotta have an attitude like yours, well then I just have to say, "steer me clear of that iceberg, Martha".

-Jymn

[murph]

bah... I didn't even read half this thread, but I thought I'd comment...

I make about 25% of what I show. The rest I've purchased through audiovisualizers or from someone else or gotten in a legit way that the person who made it is cool with me playing it. (ok, I admit, I have about 5 hollywood clips) I'm definitely not a professional, and I hope to god I never become one. This is a hobby, it's fun for me, and I'm not making so much money that I don't have to work or go to school and have a ton of time to sit around making clips. I'm a VJ, not an artist, not a professional. I make more of my content than Oakenfold does, and that fucker gets paid $10k an hour.

The people who do have all their own clips, it's been my experience, that they have a very cool and unique show, for about an hour, maybe two. Then they show it again. And again. In a 6-12 hour party it gets pretty old pretty quick, unless they're doing more interesting things with it. (which usually they're not, they've spent their time/money making content, not mixing it well)

It's just like being a DJ, some produce their own tracks, some are better at mixing, many do a bit of both. I've seen other VJs use a lot of the same clips I'm using to produce a totally different show. I'm sorry if you're too stuck on making a ton of money to enjoy the art of mixing.

[apu]

Originally posted by *****


No idae. but the right to play a 30sec BOXER BARRY MAGUIGAN clip once and once only and an event where he was guest of honour ( and he didnt own the clip the TV CO that had covered the event owned it) cost ?5300 and that was a good few years back, so a short answer is the right to use a starwars clip is what ever the owner decides its worth.




No wonder there are thieves amongst us. That 5300 quid translates to over 16000 kiwi peso's which is putting it mildly,

A Bunch Of Ass.

Hey maybe there are some corporates around that can afford to pay that much for some wack footage at an event but no wonder people resort to using illegit footage.

I dont think the vj is the only guilty party here either. If I went totally anal and tried to charge someone full rates for legit footage in use, I would probably be laughed out of town. So what we actually have is venue owners & promoters and punters all as guilty as the rest of us lowlife VJ thieves because they will not pay for a full legit VJ or not pay full legit price on the door just because the visuals are legit. It will never happen.

In your perfect world of VJing, a door charge for a simple club night could be $100 instead of $10 and a big international would be many times more.

Congratulations, Legitamacy just killed the whole scene.

Ba humbug

What do ya do????

[Primebase3]

Originally posted by murph
.

The people who do have all their own clips, it's been my experience, that they have a very cool and unique show, for about an hour, maybe two. Then they show it again. And again. In a 6-12 hour party it gets pretty old pretty quick, unless they're doing more interesting things with it. (which usually they're not, they've spent their time/money making content, not mixing it well)




Originally posted by apu
.

In your perfect world of VJing, a door charge for a simple club night could be $100 instead of $10 and a big international would be many times more.

Congratulations, Legitamacy just killed the whole scene.

Ba humbug

What do ya do????




1 murph.

***** said it man : if you can only fill 2 hours your not ready.
be patient and start making more stuff. for not mixing well ever saw 2 guys fuckup 2 mx12s connected to 3 decks and a laptop more synchronous to a adam beyer beat then software can ever do?? ever? no? mixing and content and both of high quality or else don't try (that battle idea i like a lot!!!)

2. apu

what do yo do? m8 what about buying a cam and tape?? go to a diving school in the area and ask for underwater footage they shot And make cool composites with new zealands finest!!!


sorry but this is getting ridicolous. pixy a battle seems like a good idea. :D no but people listen when you start out it's good but later on doesn't FEEL a lot better if you made YOUR show with YOUR visuals with YOUR knowledge and skill.

yes: then you know what I'm feeling when somebody else steals a gig with only some dvd's bought and a title with fill in software

no: then you problably get the kick of the mixing.

just remember if the answer was no NEVER ask when is vjing going to blow-up cos it won't (everybody can buy ,the mixing is a lot easier to learn then music) when we'll it be accepted /respected by people in the ... industry that want your service NEVER because everybody saw starwars and everybody saw shaft (some twice) sampling is cool but don't over do it !!! 50/50 or higher (original) maybe then events like AVIT (which was a absolute blast and fun!!!) wouldn't be necesarry ..everybody would be to busy with their residencies...

whatever you do in the end ,do what you like it's just 1 opinion in lake of many opinions....it's just THE opinion I think that will change the vj industry in the near future....you have been warned.

....so anyone wants to battle??

[PilotX]

I didn't really want to get involved in this, but I had a question relating to this topic that someone might be able to answer. Got a video, from a charity shop, that I want to take a loop from. The company who produced it does not seem to exist anymore. It looks like a semi-professional production (thought out, and well filmed, but clearly cheap). Is there any way to find out who (if anyone) has bought the copyrights of the firm? If no-one, who do they pass to, or are they public domain?
Finally, if there is no apparent way to find out, is it legal to use the footage?

For the record our sets range from 40%-100% original.

Apu - what do we do? seek to avoid using expensive footage where possible. But needs must. Never just play something else though, always take, change and place in a different context. When the time comes that you can afford to pay, then do so.

Tom
SyZyGy visuals

[Anyone]

When you DO have permission, mixing other people's
footage is a lot of fun... Just dont claim it to be your own...

I just came back from a gig in Germany. Has anybody heard of ZKM? It's one of the biggest new media festivals in Europe.

I got the gig just by answering my mobile one day, at the other end of the line there was the ZKM booking officer asking me to come down and NOT bring my own footage, because they would like me to VJ for their 10th anniversary party and exclusively remix 10 years' art video archives.

It was A LOT of work to preview all those film and make the initial selection, but let me tell you it was like being a kid in a candy store. pure indulgeance. The party was wicked and everybody loved it. Film-makers included...

Anyhow, I know this is a hot topic, and without wanting to be a devil's advocate, without wanting to pour oil on the fire, I just needed to tell this story as an example of what's possible when you DO have permission...

Stealing is wrong. giving and taking is wicked !

NE1

[InsideUsAll]

good to see this thread is heading back toward topic, I feel comfortable posting now...

We produce 99% our own work, theres no substitute to blasting your own work out to a huge crowd and everybody loving it. If you spoke to Calve or Ralph my partners in crime they would tell you we project 100% our own work. But they are artists and they take real pride in their work.

Me however I'm a techy, and I always will be, yes I do art work too, but its not the way my brain works, its difficult for me to produce something that looks really good. That why I spend hours sitting infront of Studio Max. Occasionally, very occasionally we stick in the odd subliminal frame or 2 of a very recognisable clip from a film or two, as much to confuse as to entertain.

I've often wondered if this is where the divide sits, if your a techie are you more interested in sticking stuff out there that just looks bloody good, as apose to an artist who really wants to get their message/imagery across.

If I hadn't got my partners on board the good ship inside-us-all I would probably project more like 75% my own work and 25% 'stolen' clips. But when we get punters telling us how great our work has been all night, I'm very greatfull to my homies for pushing me in the right direction. 100% origonal is the only real way to differentiate yourself from the masses, I consider it to be the difference between a live artist, and a D.J. It surprises me that nobody else has drawn this comparison.

A live artist will occasionally stick in a short sample or recognizable riff from somebody elses work for a bit of fun or a shout of respect to the artist who origonally composed it. As long as its a short and not frequently repeated part of your set I don't see it as too much of a problem, but I would prefer to have the origonal artists permission, unless its a clip of a hollywood movie which made stupid money anyway.

[fluchtpunkt]

Originally posted by InsideUsAll
good to see this thread is heading back toward topic, I feel comfortable posting now...


:) ...

i guess a lot of the confusion also comes from different possible interpretations of 'original content'.

one extreme interpretation would be, that this means there should be absolutely no 'alien' footage used at all in any stage of the production process (that means EVERY texture, mask, layer,...).
on the other extreme one could argue that for example playing a 5 min outtake from one movie followed by 5 mins of another is original content -- because by doing so you are already causing new associations, you are creating a new/different context.
...
personally, i always focus on certain aspects in/of sampled (i.e. 'unoriginal') footage to compose my visuals. only very rarely will i use such footage 'naked' (i.e. unmixed).
...for the statistics :) : my mixes are 100% original (&90% live) with content that is 70-100% original but may/will contain samples (to any degree!) i did not make myself.
i'm rather astounded to see vj's arguing that sampling is a bad thing (at least this is how i understand certain posts). i consider it one of the core concepts of not just vj'ing, but digital arts in general !
i don't use alien content just because i don't have enough of my own, but because doing so - to me - is part of what vj'ing is about: out of things that are given try to make something new/different. sampling imo is not theft (and most places of the world there aren't any meaningful precedent court decisions!) & has absolutely NOTHING to do with copying somebodies work to then just push the play button!!!! if anything, i would feel honoured if people sampled (...not copied!) my work - after all what better compliment can you get for your work, than inspiring someone to try and further develop it him/herself??

Originally posted by Anyone

Stealing is wrong. giving and taking is wicked !


...you said it!:cool:

[bigloose]

Cool
For me I love to create my own visuals. I think for me it's taking more creativity but maybe for some people they will find themselves more creative in remixing images done by other ppl.

Every month I'm mixing for a concept team (urbancircus.ch) and I have to create images on the theme. It a huge work every month but it's a lot of fun too.
One time the theme was spiderman and the company was working with team in charge of the promotion for the spiderman movie and I had the right to do all the loops I wanted with the original spiderman material... lot of fun
I think if you're starting to mix in bigger venue, where you're doing more money, more people are looking at what you're doing (maybe people who have been working on video you took from a film), then you have to be careful on what video you're using. When vjing will be big be company with good lawyers will look at it coz they can do big $$ on it.... on that day I think it won't be good to steal images....

But sometimes you can just send a mail to the company and they maybe let U use the video...
b!gl00z3

[murph]

Originally posted by Primebase3
1 murph.

***** said it man : if you can only fill 2 hours your not ready.
be patient and start making more stuff. for not mixing well ever saw 2 guys fuckup 2 mx12s connected to 3 decks and a laptop more synchronous to a adam beyer beat then software can ever do?? ever? no? mixing and content and both of high quality or else don't try (that battle idea i like a lot!!!)


wow, thanks for insulting me. I'm not ready? I've been rocking parties all over the midwest for more than two years. Ever used a rig that had an MX50 and an MX20 that had to use switches to get enough inputs, running feedback loops into fx 3-deep? Ever played on a 40'x30' screen? Ever played for 8,000 people? Of course you have, but don't insinuate that just because I'm using purchased or traded for content that I'm some noob VJ. I'm not just picking up some mixmasters DVD and fading it into Tron, here, christ.

I've had 14 different VJs or crews play for me at Plush, not one of them has had a style that made me go "yay, looks just like VJ ____" They all mix differently, use different FX, even when they're using the same content, it can look very different.

100% origonal is the only real way to differentiate yourself from the masses, I consider it to be the difference between a live artist, and a D.J. It surprises me that nobody else has drawn this comparison.

I did point it out, and I agree 100%!

[XeroDark]

Alright now after reading everyones comments and spending the last 15 mins or something like that reading it all. I am going to answer the question 98% of my footage i have rights to and about 15% of that is my own footage. The 2% if that are clips that i have obtained without premision. But the club that i do just about all my visuals at own copyright useage. The clips that i dont own would be like a 3 bruce lee like 4 of star wars 2 of spongebob and 1 godzia oh and 1 clip of men in tights where they do the little dance. Actualy now that i think of that its only its less then 1% of clips i dont own rights too. But i am 100% useing them legaly. I dont think i would use clips if i couldn't use them legaly. Mainly becuase i couldn't afford the fine. And if i was to use something like that that i didnt have rights too i would mess with it enough so that no one including myself could tell that it was something else. Thats my 2 cents.

Peace I'm out
Dustin

[Primebase3]

Wo murph don't jump tha gun!! not insulting man , just that if you see a show which is a "100% original" as you stated but they have to loop after 2 hours. then those are the cats that don't have enough of the goods yet.!! (man I just squashed the thing with pixy , just to get the same from murph lol hmm a assumptions cop on vjf would be cool. maybe a quake1 server for beefs...i digress.) my english is rusty sometimes but I didn't read that man. murph I believe you sincerely that you payed your dues just because we have different opinions of content doesn't mean (and this goes for everyone) that I don't respect you professionally or as debatter ..would I honestly be here if I did?


in any case , this is a thread which can never be solved. it's also the reason why standarization of vjing is out of the question. from anarchist ;) to hiphopkids to dublin businessman: we all have the love with that big fat screen. and have the ability to put anything we want on there , from stolen to homemade. in any way possible. in the end as long as your happy with it and the crowd loves it your doing your job.

I think, that in the near future more rookies will emerge with there views on everything beaming and there busy with it right now. making stuff. rather then copy the old "foxes" the pups will learn to chew. and they'll do it with the inspiration gathered from here. some will go back in time to innovate(www.stonesthrow.com) others will leave the old behind and look for the new (www.definitivejux.net) I like both the views(sounds) and work like both. simply because from both can be learned.

sampling = dope
innovate = dope
fusing the two = dope
using one of the 2 = dope

do your thing in the end : it's your screen. just do it with respect if your are sampling. and respect the views of others if innovation is your only thing.

peace

[LEVLHED]

agreed

[apu]

Originally posted by Primebase3


2. apu

what do yo do? m8 what about buying a cam and tape?? go to a diving school in the area and ask for underwater footage they shot And make cool composites with new zealands finest!!!





as i mentioned in my last post. i look like a tourist every moment/weekend with my dv cam :) as i am dedicated to eventually using 100% of my own stuff.

But surely most people have to start somewhere until they work themselves up to that higher professional level? I know I do and I am not egotistical enough to deny this fact. I am very new and I dont have a lot of my own footage and cant film some of the stuff i would like to, yet. A few more succsessfull gigs and we might be well on the way though. Bring on the toys. :)

thats my point, ya gotta start somewhere and move on up as you grow and learn.

Would it not be fair to say that deep down, any self respecting vj who currently is not 100% legit, would like to be? Why wouldn't you want to be? Who would want to stay in that position for ever?

Not unless they are happy being an amateur for ever. It reminds me of the djs who play mix cd and pretend to mix. LOL........... I remember catching a crap dj out who thought he was the mack daddy. Hilarious.

Anyway, all I wanted to say is that yes I am out there filming my own stuff and always working towards 100% legit.

[Primebase3]

Originally posted by Primebase3


do your thing in the end : it's your screen. just do it with RESPECT if your are sampling. and RESPECT the views of others if innovation is your only thing.

peace


just wanted it to repost it so eveybody saw it ...yeah ..everybody....***** your view is in there...check..all the starting kids wanting to blast on the screen...check..roll the blunt...check...soprano dvd in there.. check...goodnight everybody. please read the above quote a few times and below for extra explanation.

G is right = theft is bad and crap for the market.

sampling dope because you GIVE your extra to it. (dj shadow jazzanova ,krush, the whole ninjatune crew FIREE)

pure own style is dope (don't need to explain says it all)

both cool both dope. any questions ...anybody? no?


yup blunt working mr soprano in the car (love that openingtune)

PEACE!!!

ps: the above views and statements are copyrighted by Prime Meridian all quote submissions must be given to orville@vjcollective.com. (naah man just fezzin' man just fezzing :))

[KillingFrenzy]

Content really depends on the audience.

For Halloween I was EXPECTED to play easily recognizable horror clips for the club night I was playing. In the same way the DJ was expected to play some recognizable tunes so the audience could chuckle at hearing "thriller" on Halloween. Would the owner of the club been happy if all I played was the fake slasher flick I made with some friends?

From a working perspective, would a DJ only play his own original tracks at a typical club night. Nope... people want to hear something recognizable.

So, from someone who's usually on the art vs. commerce side of things, I have to point out the commerce side on this one. I get played to play "pop" visuals for certain nights. I'm only too happy to play original material, but the truth is most clubs want something the audience has some connection with from previous experience.

[MoRpH]

Originally posted by *****
but the right to play a 30sec BOXER BARRY MAGUIGAN clip once and once only and an event where he was guest of honour ( and he didnt own the clip the TV CO that had covered the event owned it) cost ?5300

OK I think that pretty much shows WHO the THIEVES in this situation are!!

[rudehead]

some fo you guys spend too much time writing to make a good show.

[bigloose]

Sometimes it's good that people on the forum are not at the same place and that it's only on the web....some maye kill each other....i
;-|

[Primebase3]

OT : got a idea about that hey VJC /VJF crew!!! yes you watching this thread with horror from the sideline :P what about a vj battle !!!! like tthey do on open mic nights and stuff? with a unbiased jury and online to keep the price low?? ? kinda like Vj Fighter 2 super hyper turbo fighting only not with wordz but with visuals?? in different diciplines from rookie to expert from software to prerenders??? just thought it would be a cool idea for fun not for vendettaz I don't know about you but some "battles" would just be ultra cool to see what about it?


qt cinepak 160x120(non-useable later on) or something or realplayer or winmedia?

just a idea.

[Primebase3]

Originally posted by rudehead
some fo you guys spend too much time writing to make a good show.


some of us have work they do with such ease, that they have time to write :P

[eXhale]

Please note that any future post related to copyright issues on this thread/forum will be edited or deleted. You can discuss such topics on the new Legal Issues (www.vjforums.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=27) forum.

[PilotX]

Originally posted by Primebase3
OT : got a idea about that hey VJC /VJF crew!!! yes you watching this thread with horror from the sideline :P what about a vj battle !!!! like tthey do on open mic nights and stuff? with a unbiased jury and online to keep the price low?? ? kinda like Vj Fighter 2 super hyper turbo fighting only not with wordz but with visuals?? in different diciplines from rookie to expert from software to prerenders??? just thought it would be a cool idea for fun not for vendettaz I don't know about you but some "battles" would just be ultra cool to see what about it?


qt cinepak 160x120(non-useable later on) or something or realplayer or winmedia?

just a idea.

Me and Dan talked about getting a second rig, having the same setup and clips, and battling over it out.
another option - floppy disk visuals battle - you can only have the clips you can fit on a standard 1.44mb disk. (obviously some ground rules needed here - no livecam, software seperate, but generating software not allowed (this makes it too easy). Probably a bad idea, but I believe in travelling light.

Tom

[KillingFrenzy]

I say strap a pixelvision camera to one arm, a universal remote to the other, a rebelle to each of their chests, and drop them into the TV section of a "Best Buy."
Of course, you could just replace the rebelle with a monkey on the roof shaking the antenna to the store.

[Primebase3]

mixing a one minute piece on selected music by yourself + plus a edit of the visuals you use?? then encode it small and upload it somewhere?? I think it would be fun. make a cool site for it vj battles .com or something and promote vjing online at the same time!! hmmm starting to feel it any more ideas??

[PilotX]

lol KillingFrenzy :D Just need to get a rebelle, and I'll see you there.

Might be more of a battle if the music is pre-selected for each set of VJs - more of a contest and chance to see different ideas to fit with a style of music.

Don't know how well a modem connection would work with two or more streams running - I guess broadband would be fine. Don't really know much about the technics of the web.

eventually, maybe hook up with an internet radio station for live battles?

Tom

[BrainStove]

Originally posted by KillingFrenzy

Of course, you could just replace the rebelle with a monkey on the roof shaking the antenna to the store.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! :D :D :p Good one Frenzy!!! LOL sniff...

As for the contest thing??? What the Fuck are you all talking about???

So far ***** and me still are waiting for your entry on the waaayy easier Cheese Challenge contest...

However if you are more interested in this new contest, I agree about the 1.44MB size limit, 160x120 minimum, but I also would like to clarify the PilotX rules some further:

- no livecam, software seperate, but generating software not allowed (this makes it too easy).

Why not any of those??? I rather will be encouraging using ALL OF THESE sources/tools and even more I?d add to include an audio track in your clip too in order to evaluate your real skillz at the encoding level too. (Not just using your beloved MidiVid to compose your clip PilotX :p)
Note: the 1.44MB size limit should be for a .zip file to upload somewhere.

Anyone taking this specs?... and btw What are you expecting for your cheese challenge entry :p

[PilotX]

Originally posted by BrainStove


However if you are more interested in this new contest, I agree about the 1.44MB size limit, 160x120 minimum, but I also would like to clarify the PilotX rules some further:

Why not any of those??? I rather will be encouraging using ALL OF THESE sources/tools and even more I?d add to include an audio track in your clip too in order to evaluate your real skillz at the encoding level too. (Not just using your beloved MidiVid to compose your clip PilotX :p)
Note: the 1.44MB size limit should be for a .zip file to upload somewhere.


The original idea was born out of a discussion about whether VJing would get to the position of ppl turning up with a book of VCDs, and then thinking how amusing it would be to turn up to a club with just a single floppy disk (imagine the look on a promotors face :)
The reason for no livecam or generating software was that this would mean the total amount of imagery available would exceed 1.44mb. (you could pre-generate stuff, and use it under these rules, so long as it fitted on the floppy)
BTW - midivid only really plays clips. There is an advantage to those using visualjockey etc.
(this was never a serious idea, just a stoned creation)

Still trying to find some reekng gorgonzola for the cheese challenge...

Tom

[vjfader]

all original scratchable VJ loops available for download. Designed to be used with Neuromixer and other software VJ app. Get them at: http://www.neuromixer.com/neuromixer/content.htm

one thing is for sure, we need more VJ content period!

[choimation]

All original is great when you have the time to produce that much content. I don't see anything wrong with using a mixture of original, stock, and altered stock content is wrong as long as it produces the desired results and as long as you own the EULA to the stock.

Art is great, getting paid for it is even better and when you're schedule is chock flying from one gig to the next and the only rest you get is on the plane, calling up digital vision or getty images for some stock content in no way demoralizes the artform IMHO.

Christian
The Choimation Image Factory, Inc.
www.choimation.com

[Amukidi]

"All original is great when you have the time to produce that much content. I don't see anything wrong with using a mixture of original, stock, and altered stock content is wrong as long as it produces the desired results and as long as you own the EULA to the stock.

Art is great, getting paid for it is even better and when you're schedule is chock flying from one gig to the next and the only rest you get is on the plane, calling up digital vision or getty images for some stock content in no way demoralizes the artform IMHO."

Ever considered a visit to planet Earth?
:confused:

[sleepytom]

this thread has been dead for like 2 years now - please don't reopen dead threads by tacking an advert on the end of them.