war clips

[epoch]

anyone have any good sources for war clips?

[krezrock]

archive.org

[epoch]

yeah i tried archive.org. i am actually looking for something a little bit more recent.....

[eXhale]

US governement and military websites have quite a lot of these stuff... and Google happens to have a website dedicated to searching such sites:

http://www.google.com/unclesam

With a quick search I found this:

http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/videos/videos.html
http://www2.acc.af.mil/gallery//videos.shtml
http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/11marines_ii/11marines_ii_tabi.htm
http://www.usafe.af.mil/berlin/quickfax.htm
http://www.nasa.gov/gallery/video/ (not quite war but useful)
http://www.military.com/Resources/ResourceSubmittedFileView?file=multimedia_video.ht m
http://www.voodoo.cz/video.html
http://www.specialoperations.com/Multimedia/movies.html

That's maybe more than what you need but it didn't take me long to find this, there is so much of them :) Oh and if you want to create custom content you should check out http://americasarmy.com, it's a free 3D game made by the US army where you are supposed to shoot evil terrorists (no comment :o). With a dualhead card or a scan convertor, it should be easy to capture scenes into video clips...

[hamageddon]

that recent enuff?

http://www.nato.int/kosovo/video.htm

[neilb]

How do you save or import streaming footage?

[Rovastar]

War clips WTF?

It is people liek you that stop VJ's getting booked IMHO.

Content, artistic, balh, blah, blah,

this stuff can be offensive give it a miss people. grow up why are you always ona mission.


Where do the war clips go n your set between the child porn and the planes crashing into teh WTC.

A drunk Rovastar

[InsideUsAll]

I agree, I do some really dark acid techno type things [as well as the much more friendly fun things] and you can't get much more evil & twisted than some of that music. Yet I would never consider projecting imagery of war, how disrespectfull can you get?

The only time I've ever found myself dancing to imagery of war is at an orbital gig to 'satan'. And to be honest that completely freaked me out.

Put some real thought into what you do, nicking clips of stock war imagery is not what I would call artistic, its just shock tactics. I guess it depends whether you consider yourself to be a visuals artist, or just another V.J.

[eXhale]

Weither it's art or not depends on how you use it. If you just throw war clips in the middle of random video clips, I agree it's just plain stupid, and I would never do it, but EBN used a lot of war footage and I do consider it art... to each their own, I guess. Dave: what's really stupid in the first place is war itself, not the broadcast of such realities. Anyway if I said no comment it's because I didn't want to enter into yet another useless debate with the same people.

[InsideUsAll]

yes imagery of war can be art, its just not the kind of art I think we should be encouraging people to dance too

[eXhale]

I agree but keep in mind not all visuals, like not all music, are dancing material. There are more and more "VJs" playing outside of the dance/DJ scene.

[KillingFrenzy]

I can actually think of any variety of situations where war clips are very appropriate.

I'm doing a show this weekend and plan to use footage from "War Requiem" by Derek Jarman. The show itself is with a live band, and will be sort of dark and somber ambient/industrial.

I also have a friend making an art car that he wants to trick out with monitors. Probably going to go for more of a glitched out broadcast feel.

As a field, our material should be just as varied as the types of music out there. I should hope some of us are doing something besides projecting swirlies and dancing fashion models at Oakenfold concerts.

I find mainstream media's exploitation of war in ridiculous twaddle like "Windtalkers" a lot more offensive.

[fluchtpunkt]

Originally posted by Rovastar
War clips WTF?

It is people liek you that stop VJ's getting booked IMHO.


:nod: ?

in the very beginning of the current 'tiefglanz01' mixtape we (vj vkid & me) used imagery of early atomic bomb tests () and a propaganda film for kids on how to behave in case of a nuclear explosion ('duck & cover') mixed with our proper content. i should stress that there was no footage of war, i.e. combat (or worse... :( ) involved at all (which imo would be inappropriate). the tape is now ~1 year old & has been given away to a lot of people. only once did we get a negative reaction to this footage & were asked not to use it at their club (fair enough). knowing when & where something is appropriate or not is part of the job.
...
in general i don't see why using war related material should be a taboo. we are bombarded with a huge amount of (audio)visual content every day. one aspect of a vj's work imho is to 'reflect' on this content (...& in extension the world we live in) by remixing it, by creative decompostion, (by...whatever you call it). violent & war imagery are VERY prominent & frequent in our everyday lives (& most of the time just for cheap thrills!). personally, as long as i'm quasi permanently surrounded by such imagery, i will keep letting them appear in my visuals.

[epoch]

Originally posted by Rovastar
War clips WTF?

It is people liek you that stop VJ's getting booked IMHO.

Content, artistic, balh, blah, blah,

this stuff can be offensive give it a miss people. grow up why are you always ona mission.


Where do the war clips go n your set between the child porn and the planes crashing into teh WTC.

A drunk Rovastar

Rovastar you have not a F**king clue what I am even using the footage for....So why not get off your little soap box now.

First off I am not using the clips in a live vj mix! Nor do I have any intention of showing this at a kiddy rave or party. It is being used in a political piece that I am putting together for a gallery. So before you open your mouth and stick your foot in get all the facts....

I have to say it is ignorant people like yourself that have this "ideal" of what a vj should be. I would never in a million years show a plane crashing into the WTC, kiddie porn, or anything of that nature at a club/rave/what have you. Or anywhere for that matter. I express myself through video installations/vj'ing. Not everything has to be kiddie raver psychedelic swirly imagery. Just cause I am choosing to do a piece that is politically charged with my personal views on war does not mean you have to like it. If you take such offense to this stuff then do not watch it! The piece I am working on is supposed to make you think....Something that you obviously did not do before you posted.

[Rovastar]

See to me if you were a true professional you would never play anything that would cause the promoter/owner to say I do not want that sort of offensive material in my club.

Either run it by them first with the potentially offensive bit or don't play it at all.

Also for a promoter/owner to say I do not want that probably equates to many, many more that amount of punters look at it and thinking. That is in bad taste or whatever.

I have no interest in shocking people or promoting any sort of polticial stance.

Also true, war/horrific images are around us. But in clubs (mosty this work is clubs - if you are doing an exhibition at an art gallery called 'The horrors of war' or something that is a different scenario.) using such real images IMHO just turns it in a cheap entertainment trick.

[Rovastar]

Originally posted by epoch


Rovastar you have not a F**king clue what I am even using the footage for....So why not get off your little soap box now.

First off I am not using the clips in a live vj mix! Nor do I have any intention of showing this at a kiddy rave or party. It is being used in a political piece that I am putting together for a gallery. So before you open your mouth and stick your foot in get all the facts....

I have to say it is ignorant people like yourself that have this "ideal" of what a vj should be. I would never in a million years show a plane crashing into the WTC, kiddie porn, or anything of that nature at a club/rave/what have you. Or anywhere for that matter. I express myself through video installations/vj'ing. Not everything has to be kiddie raver psychedelic swirly imagery. Just cause I am choosing to do a piece that is politically charged with my personal views on war does not mean you have to like it. If you take such offense to this stuff then do not watch it! The piece I am working on is supposed to make you think....Something that you obviously did not do before you posted.

True I ddi not know what you wanted the stuff for I dunno lets think on VJforums in the mix contect section with no explaination you wanted war clips. SOrry for jumping to the wrong conclusions:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

If you bothered to expalin yourself I might not have added my comments in that way.

I think you fail to understand the scene though VJ's do/have played WTC footage, porn (ok probably not kiddy porn just making a point), disaters, war material, etc. I naturally presumed you were on of these people.

So you obviously have an ideal about what a VJ should play. I just know what VJ's DO play that is the difference you need to ask around more what goes off in the scene.

For a exhibation it is fine if people know the score before hand and know what to expect. If I go into teh Holocaust section at the Imperial War Meuseum I know what to expect and choose if to go in there or not. Clubing away as a punter I have know such choice.

......Oh BTW I wish we would just bomb saddam now and get the wait done with rather tahn give him another 6 months to perfect this arsenal. :);)

[epoch]

Originally posted by Rovastar


True I ddi not know what you wanted the stuff for I dunno lets think on VJforums in the mix contect section with no explaination you wanted war clips. SOrry for jumping to the wrong conclusions:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

If you bothered to expalin yourself I might not have added my comments in that way.

I think you fail to understand the scene though VJ's do/have played WTC footage, porn (ok probably not kiddy porn just making a point), disaters, war material, etc. I naturally presumed you were on of these people.

So you obviously have an ideal about what a VJ should play. I just know what VJ's DO play that is the difference you need to ask around more what goes off in the scene.

For a exhibation it is fine if people know the score before hand and know what to expect. If I go into teh Holocaust section at the Imperial War Meuseum I know what to expect and choose if to go in there or not. Clubing away as a punter I have know such choice.

......Oh BTW I wish we would just bomb saddam now and get the wait done with rather tahn give him another 6 months to perfect this arsenal. :);)

no worries. maybe i should have explained what i was doing. but i also feel, being an artist, that i do not need to explain myself.

i actually do not have an ideal of what vj's should be playing. vj'ing should be about the ability to express yourself through a medium. to take "clips" (original & sampled) and create something new. everyone is going to have their own view on this. it is all relative.

i think there is a time and a place for everything. personally, i would never project porn, death, destruction, mayhem, what have you in a club setting. it is not the venue for it. i am not in this to shock people, i do this to express myself with content that is suited to the venue i am playing in. for example, if it is a deep house night, i have been known to mix clips that are a bit more sexy and sensual, but never offensive. in my mind that fits the music. especially when it is 3am and the floor is packed and people are all sweaty and the like.

i put a lot of thought into what i do. the piece i am woking on (currently unnamed) actually tells a story of someone that is on the fence in their views on war....it looks at both sides of the war issue. not just a hodge podge of war clips tossed together. i have shot over 3 hours of original dv footage for this project. we followed a friend (btw, who is in the military) around to various anti war events and the like. we also shot footage of the aliance the individual feels towards the military. this is a visual representation of what is going on inside the head of a war conflicted individual. there is a method to my madness.

i know what vj's do play around here. granted this is a very small subset of the vj community. some of it i like, some of it i do not. to each their own. but i have yet to see any of the above mentioned content played in a club around here. seems to me a promoter/club would not hire someone that just wants to shock or put people in a bad trip. that is the last thing i would want to do. enough said.

[Rovastar]

Maybe I persumed to much about you and I was beered up at the time at 3am.:)

All the accounts I have refered to are second hand (never seen anything really bad myself) some of the first people I spoke to about club VJing at the start of the year the second person I spoke to gave me a horror story aboutgay porn being played in the middle of a set for no reason. They had a projector on the wall going begging in the venue ever since.

A friend, from the states I think, I know had WTC footage only a few months afterwards the attacks in a big club night.

ANother bird I was friendly with ;) the first thing she said we I said I was doing the visuals for our club night was that on a recent holiday to prague in the club the visuals were all about disaster and otehr really morbid stuff, really depressing and put a downer on the night.

Maybe I have had a bad cross section of secondhand experiences. Dunno?

Anyway your film does sound intersting andmost importantly balanced let the viewer decide that is thinking mans art.

[fluchtpunkt]

Originally posted by Rovastar
See to me if you were a true professional you would never play anything that would cause the promoter/owner to say I do not want that sort of offensive material in my club.

Either run it by them first with the potentially offensive bit or don't play it at all.

Also for a promoter/owner to say I do not want that probably equates to many, many more that amount of punters look at it and thinking. That is in bad taste or whatever.

I have no interest in shocking people or promoting any sort of polticial stance.

Also true, war/horrific images are around us. But in clubs (mosty this work is clubs - if you are doing an exhibition at an art gallery called 'The horrors of war' or something that is a different scenario.) using such real images IMHO just turns it in a cheap entertainment trick.

... i take it you're referring to me :)

i agree with most of your points, actually you will find many of them in my first post!

the footage was on the demo. so the promoters told us they liked our work, but found the atomic tests innapropriate for their venue. thus we didn't use them. :cool:
...btw: the very same people enjoyed our mixes with/of eastern martial-arts movie fighting scenes a lot. interestingly the (at times) extreme violence portrayed there did not bother them. (would you consider using imagery from e.g. the matrix or lord of the rings is a nono ... because of the portrayed violence????!)
then on the other hand the atomic tests. first of all: it's just TESTS! second: the atomic explosion does not stand for hiroshima and nagasaki alone. the first tests mark the beginning of the so called 'atomic' age. the world has profoundly changed in consequence. again, i understand if someone - for whatever reasons - does not wish to have such images displayed at their club (i might find it inappropriate for the event myself). but arguing it should not be displayed at all is demanding cencorship.
third: bad taste? shocking? promoting political stances? you haven't even seen any of these visuals!
...
a party should be a space with a positive energy, true. but imo this does not at all mean that only 'pleasant' imagery is appropriate and anything that might be troubling taboo. i don't think it should be a space indefferent to the world around, & that has nothing to do with being on a political mission or whatever.
...
it all depends on where you're at! ... at a fetish party porn samples are a very good idea! what may be desirable in one place could be offensive in the other. professionalism isn't about having content that will fit in everywhere but about knowing what fits where! & as long as i myself am alright with what i'm showing, it's fine.
...
oh and by the way: first you complain about how offensive visuals relating to war are, to then 'btw let's bomb saddam' (though i'm not quite sure if i understood correctly...)
well all i can say is:

colateral damage

[many2]

I rarely do visuals alone anymore so even if I have full control over my own content I don't have this control over my partner's clips. I have a very strong position about never ever letting any violence/gore/sex/depressing images in my shows but a couple of months ago I was playing with my friend Cinetik and he had some archive clips of atomic tests. I was jamming with Manga style clips of characters pressing buttons and activating levers and Cinetik had the idea to put his atomic tests in the mix. What was strange was that I actually liked the mix a lot (and Cinetik is a very skillfull mixer if there is one) so I had violent content in my mix without wanting it but once there it was more than OK. In the following days there were some negative feedback over this "violent" content on the venue's website forum, so even if I liked this particular mix I don't think I would do it again : people are there to feel "high", to get some relief from a hard working week, they aren't partying to remember how violent and sad our world can be.

Many-2

[michaelheap]

WTF? are you talking about?

Profesionalism and content have nothing to do with each other, Ive been projecting riot footage and War clips for over 5 years as part of the raya collective (www.raya.org.uk) i projected war clips all the way through the AVIT in leeds, I have never got into trouble more than onec (and that was my partner being stupid) I belive i have got more vj's booked because of our actions through work at the UK's ICA, and other high profile events,

showing gratuitous violonce is wrong, but howing the concequenses of sutch is a political move, having gun shilouetts over the threasholded bodys of children is a chilling statement over the uses of guns.

Your a vj for F*** sake you exist to get a reaction, your there to put thaughts into peoples minds, VJing is the last bastian of un touched media, and if your using it to project images of fluffy bunnies and kittens, god dam, vjing has already sold out.

Party spaces need positive energy etc. that does not have to the mood, i have played to a mob of angry striking firemen, using visuals to promote positive action and to re inforce messages, so they can go out and do some good

[trollkind]

I'm using not exactly war footage but weapon tests, promotional and scientific stuff that have to do with military. I'm a pacifist and like to express that if the event is appropiate.
There is atom bomb footage from above in the atoll that is very beautyful and doesn't show the mushroom thingie. Also I like to show these mad scinetists watching that with their witty sunglasses. that's not really funny but hilarious.
It's just irony.

so, Peace.

[fsck]

[[[--just a link which may b usefull --

an archive featuring some very well-done propaganda videos by chechen separatists... download them if you can, since they seem to have some trouble with authorities -- the official servers kavkaz.org and kavkazcenter.org were shut down 3 months ago. the newest mirrorsite is http://kavkaz.fr.st/eng/video/index.html

you will find some impressive footage in the "attacks of the mujahideen" section, ataka2.rm (6.6Mo) and ataka5.rm (36.1Mo) are specially recommended.

[[[++!!!/`// - ? consommer avec mod?ration! - /// ]]]

[lichtspieler]

Ok, this video is another bad example of war.
http://www.newsfrombabylon.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewsdownload&sid=3

It shows a AC-130 Helicopter shooting at Trucks, Caves and People.
It is suposed to be Afghan war footage. I can't imagine it being officially released by the pentagon.

If you want to discuss the content of the Video do it here:

http://www.michaelmoore.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=7600

Hope you find it usefull. I don't think it should be played at a club.

Lichtspieler

PS: Why doens't anybody ask me for skydiving footage, that would be much nicer to look at.

[Corbett]

Hello VJs...tis my first post to this forum and i'm going to keep it short:

We see enough war on a daily basis.
Choose your clips wisely. I VJed a house party one night for a friend, and I put in a DVD of Gulf War bombing footage, and a one person said "hey man, thats a little intense, and we see that everyday all day, how about something with a little more levity."
He was right, i changed the DVD.

BTW. Who ever started this board...THANK YOU. I'm about to donate, because in the past three hours that i've been read these post i've learned more than i have in weeks.

peace.
corbett

[brain]

personally i try to create a "visually safe environment" when i play at a (say house) club - no violence (unless its unrealistic, funny stuff). i think people have the right to relax, let go and feel all comfortable, without visual disturbance by violence. as someone said, there's enough out there.

things might be different when the music's or partys attitude is different - e.g. dark, dirty drum'n'bass or a gothic/sm thing... but even then i'd rather try to create a tense atmophere than showing actual violence.

BUT now that we are about to see another big war start i get more and more ANGRY and think about proper action.

question.

you are booked friday 14 feb to play in a club. one week earlier it gets clear the us will move on iraq soon. friday morning the bombing and missile raids start.
what will you do?

1) the show must go on. i'd play as usual.

2) i'd cancel the assignment and tell the promoter it's not the time to party.

3) i'd play a definite love-and-peace-set and flash peace signs.

4) i'd go there and put just a NO WAR on the beams.

5) i will play a really angry, agressive anti-war set with all-out painful violent clips and sick documentary stuff to hammer into peoples heads whats going on.

6)... ?

(of course 4 or 5 will have the people and promoter walk on you and maybe kick you out, because you ruin the night for them...)

i would be really interested in your aswers !
this is NOT to expose anyone as having a "wrong" opinion!

personally i'm about to prepare for a "political" anti-military version of 5 to take place in a very small bar/club around here. the team and the djs who play there are easy to talk to and maybe on time we cancel the usual program for an event where people can gather and talk about whats going on. during the first iraq war ten years ago a lot of people in my hometown gathered in a pub/bar and talked all night about their anger and fear. it was quite important for many NOT to be sitting at home alone watching CNN crap.

still i'm not shure yet what i would do on that fictional friday 15 (just 1 is impossible to me)

besides all this i think actual war footage is really difficult to deal with and should be handled carefully. it's a matter of respect to the ones dead. in military videos (eg. rocket hitting bunker) the casualties have not been asked if they want to act in a movie... 99% of us do not know how painful war REALLY is and we should not use such stuff lighthanded.

peace
brain

[Amukidi]

Does the word "cliche" spring to mind here ;-)

[brain]

ok. of course these few options may be cliches. so jaffa, i presume you go for a 1 (business as usual) or will you behave differently? then i'd be interested how.

don't get me wrong. there are a million unjustice things going on in the world and this war is just one more. but i think it's handled as a symbol, and it deserves to get a statment.

brain

[elbows]

Originally posted by *****
[B]Who the Feck AM I to decide what the crowd SHOULD SEE?

I dunno about anyone else but thats why Im getting into this VJing lark - I thought half the point was that you get to decide what the crowd see!

I know what you mean though, I mean Im a very political person, but Ive been thinking long and hard about how far I would go and the right circumstances to try and get a serious message to people, and when to forget all that and give people the escapism they are probably seeking.

My personal conclusion: Theres a time and a place for everything, and I wouldnt want to ruin the vibe/atmosphere, so Im seeking to find a right event for this kind of thing.

[vjnixmix]

okay ... I have to speak out on this one...

When I pick my footage I do pick it carefully... and when I mix video I show people what the world is like... I like to show the truth. Some people don't like the truth. Some people don't like the world... so I say look the other way as you do every day when you turn on your tv and scroll past the world news. Being that the environment at the events I play is a very free-minded one (mostly underground parties)... no one has ever said anything to me about being offended.. in fact here is a quote from an email that one of my "fans" sent out:

"Got to hang for a while up in the "booth" where VJ Nixmix (Niky Metsa) was performing live video mixing and i have to say that she really outdid herself with this one. The constant subliminal (and not so subliminal) visuals of military/police action gave her visuals set a vaguely unsettling sense of urgency, like "we're all here together at peace (and it was very peaceful amid all the banging hard techno), but just be aware, outside the world ain't so peaceful..."

I have never had a problem with promoters... they have hired me to perform a piece of art work ... I have never walked up to a photographer or a painter and told them there art is inappropriate. Telling vj's what they should or shouldn't use is the exact same... and unless I signed a contract that says I need to make everyone happy and flash the promoters logos instead of my own (which I wouldn't do anyway) ... good luck getting me to conform to the norm. we all have our opinions and we all have our art... and in the end, that really is all we've got. Yes my visuals are dark... at times... a gentle mix shall we say... but they are real, and isn't that what people out at clubs and raves are trying to be anyway (well most of them)...

[VjDeranged]

glad I read this Thread... so i was doing a party the other day..and I had Big Bold Lettering flash across the screen... Saying .. We could show you Sex... (right across the chest of a chesty woman visual) ... we could show you War (right under a pic of Saddams warm grin) .... we could show you Torture (right under a bush withhouse speech loop) ... then the lettering changed to ...but we are sadists.... So all you gonna get is This...

...it had the desired effect :) thanks to this thread for an idea!