DJs who don't allow visuals

[holly]

No idea where to post this one....

Gig last weekend at HUSH (a club with tons of video infrastructure) in Houston was going great until DJ DEEP DISH shut down all visuals: mine, another VJ's, and even the club's video trailor as per their contract rider. I get paid the same either way, but diva attitude from someone named after a PizzaHut promotion is so unnecessary. Not to mention their show was late to set up, they couldn't get their custom soundboard (or whatever it was) to work on stage and eventually had to go upstairs to the regular dj booth, and left punters booing in the dark for more than 40 minutes!!!

The unprofessionalism of their set just proves why they are too insecure to be upstaged by visuals and lighting. I'm starting a list of DJs who refuse visuals. It's not a blacklist or anything, but if you find yourself scheduled at a gig with this guy, don't bother to unpack.... And when every punter in the club comes up to ask what happened to the music be sure to tell them it's another panfried cheese performance from DEEP DISH.
;)

[DrEskaton]

what would have happened if you had said "i'm a professional and I've been booked to play here so I'm going to play?"

would security / promoter have been on your side?

[holly]

Ha! I've no idea. I don't think they were willing to get in a fistfight about it. Besides, security was too busy throwing out drunken members of FischerSpooner (the featured act on the tour):P

I was told by the event producers to go dark. I thought it was just to make the 40 minute silence more painful for us all, but after the other VJ kicked in to try to releave a bit of tension (and then went dark) and finally the club turned on their house pre-recorded logo (I mean the club is like 20 plasmas and one whole bar with 2*4 video projection grid as the ceiling!) and then that also got switched off -- even the backup dj kicked in some beats to cover the transition and then was shut off..., it was obvious that something was up.

Basicly the guy who hired me said to stay dark so I went to the bar and goofed off the rest of the night. I was paid the same either way, but honestly it was much worse for the patrons. That's not my ego talking because there's no way it was something personal about what I was showing. It's a big club with integrated video and a crazy lighting spider-thing that lowers and has more lights than a showroom, all of it dark. The club wasn't too happy about it either. Later I learned from the producers that there was a contract rider for DEEP DISH. I was like "why didn't you guys tell us that earlier?" I would have packed up before going to the bar.

Diva DJ just made everything a mess and wouldn't allow anyone to cover for his sloppy transition. The crowd was pissed.
:grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :grrr:
Ever had a DJ tell you to go dark?

Reminds me of when Oli said VJs should be willing to go black at anytime. I still don't agree. Dead screens suck energy from the room. It's not like they turn invisible or disappear just because there's nothing showing on them... It feels like wasted equipment -- like a roped-off balcony everyone can seefrom the dancefloor that has no one sitting in it. I think going minimal with almost nothing on the screen (faint lines, tiny star(s), something....) is preferable to just dead grey screens.

[fALk]

this story tells you so much about dj culture today. if a vj would have shown up late and his kit didn?t work he would not get hired again anywhere. but this dish dude prolly gets on the case and says "it was a feature of the show to add tension" or the like. jesh... those audio guys never stop to amaze me with their arrogance and bad attitudes. I crave the day they go down in flames just to be normal people... not all djs are like this but there are some very very black sheeps - especially if they are somehow in the "top 100" or whatever ... the higher they climb up the more arrogant they get - I don?t understand why they just can?t stay human... I mean at least he could have allowed the backup dj to play some tunes so the crowd gets some music - on the lowest level they have actually paid for that service....

Next time don?t go dark.... try out what happens when you keep on going - so we have soap story more to tell :)

[DrEskaton]

Originally posted by holly

Ever had a DJ tell you to go dark?


No, but we had a promoter in Australia who would make us go black screens for the first ten minutes when the main international act came on (Infected Mushroom). Lighting went dark as well and the idea was supposed to be after ten minutes exactly both lighting and visuals kicked it and went wild.

Nice idea in theory but to really make it work you need to get it sorted with the act, cause there needs to be an audio cue for when the screens should come back or it's just strange.

I can see how it could work very nicely with proper show management / integration with stage manager / lighting / and a cue from the act as when to go wild.

[solly]

There is a Dj here that always wants it dark. I know why he wants it dark. Thats because he tried to build up with the music and he also tells the light guy to do it. I never leave it completely blank. I put something dark like a line or a flashing dark square. But he mainly wants it dark to make the atmosphere and the brightness of the room according to what he is spinning. I can understand that, but that goes all night long with no longer than 2 min darkness each time. Anyways Deepdish came here 3 years ago and its usually 2 guys but one guy came and only played CDs. The music was una gran mierda. Its nothing personal if he doesnt want visual, they think that its just a bright thing that can distract their performance. These dark DJ are only happy with visuals if you use a camera on them and project them on the plasmas.
Solo

[syzygy]

We had a DJ ask for no visuals once because he was very political and was worried that 'eye candy' on the screens might detract from what he was playing.

A few minutes on the phone convinced him that we could supply appropriately political imagery ;)

I see your point about empty screens Holly. Leaving them off for a long time would be seem kinda weird - like the venue was trying to save money on electricity or something... Something minimal on the screen, if only to show that the darkness is intentional, would be a good idea.

I might try using a "This screen left intentionally blank" graphic :)

Dan.

[visualove]

There is a new film out "The Smartest Guys in the Room" about Enron, also based in Houston (http://dj-club.martin.com/casestory/casestory.asp?id=741). Maybe DEEP DISH is on the same track...

All CAPS is a dead giveaway!

[asterix]

Bloody glamourpuss DJ's!!!:grrr:
To be quite honest guys I've called for blackouts on a few occasions (lights - everything!) . It just breaks the mood a little, and gives the laser/lampee a chance to showcase :)
And when it all progresses back in, its almost like they haven't seen visuals all night and regroups a crowds attention. Otherwise it can be like a DJ who rolls out the same tunes all night. :zzz:
I know quite a few DJ's who just can't seem to get things dark enough. Fuckem its not their job to assume control of lighting.

When did they become big experts?

[Kyle]

The only blackouts I get are when the ghetto club has inadequate power and the breakers pop.:mad:

[holly]

Originally posted by visualove
also based in Houston (http://dj-club.martin.com/casestory/casestory.asp?id=741).
This is from that link:The Hush experience begins before you even get inside. Visible from adjacent Interstate 10, the club?s glass fa?ade and six porte-cache columns dominate its exterior.... It was basicly a car dealer showroom along the highway (Houston is nothing BUT highways) and the whole front of the club is like 25-30ft glass windows facing the road. I was like "aren't you people afraid of highway snipers? This is TEXAS afterall!"
http://www.gunlaws.com/images/tgog_lg.gif

It was a fantastic club. Not sure I'd call it "beautiful" but very expensively decorated (all silver and purple), and even the funiture was custom with HUSH etched out of it. Our LD was creaming over that spider thing. It came down right over people's heads and did a brainscrambler thing.... This is definitely a club vjs WANT to play. Even had a full-on VJ booth!
:heart: :love: :heart:

[asterix]

Oh one of those moving light tressels. Sometimes they get close enough to your head you can feel the heat off the roboscans!
Once they got a little carried away and detonated one of those pyrotechnic confettie poppers a little too low - It was so loud! Never seen so many people on the brink of falling over from shock (the dash to the toilets to check pants was really something!)

[bluntfaktory]

i got asked to shut it down once at a Pride party . i guess it was about 2am and i was told tonight the boys want darkness from now on . it was cool with me i just flicked of the gear and ran for cover . it's not really the same as some jurky DJ pulling a "not at my gig " trip . BOO.... BOOO .... DJ sinks ..... oh well ... "Deep Dish ?" .... stupid old stupid face .... yo pizza guy could we have a little extra cheeze over here ...

[atomicone]

deep dish blow. plain and simple. Unfortuntately for me they come to the club i mix at at least once or twice a year. :mad: They were actually just here over the may 24 weekend, and once again i had to shut down the screens. Now, they usually let us mix at least for the start ( a good way to convince them of this is to put their name up)
Deep Dish are all about the slow build from beginning to end of the set, but when they are playing 8hrs its a bit of a yawn. :zzz: Now though I know what to expect so I mixed in the DnB room and let my counterpart mix for them until 5am or so then shut down the screens before i get asked to. The other vj gets to go home early, and everyone is happy.

I agree that it sucks when djs ask you to turn the visuals right off. If anything I think very basic, dark visuals can be used. I think its an ego trip on their part, either that or its so people can't see them taking turns on the decks while the other sits on his ass and hits on girls.

[Amukidi]

I don't think its fair to chuck all folks who don't want visuals into the same bin as this one. Sure, they had a problem, well this can happen to anybody, amateur and pro, and the basic premise sounds pretty good, and as they are on the billing and you are a supporting artist, it is their call. I've come across a few acts in my time who don't want visuals, and this must be respected as it is usually a considered decision. The only solution, if this really bothers you, is for you to get onto the billing in your own right, then you get to choose.

[kallisti]

i've never been asked to go black, but many times a promotor comes up to me last minute and says "these guys brought their own dvd/videotape/whatever... can you play it for them?".. well, whatever i'm getting paid, and i can always use a bar/bathroom break....but 99% of the time, the band/dj supplied visuals suck so much ass...

[muscarivandit]

Really? Deep Dish did that....

Dude!!!

:eek:

[vjpixylight]

none of yous ever been to Jamaica?

The best part of a black room is the freedom it releases to just dance anyway you want.
it is the freest thing, and also the most pure.

They have figured this out in JA where as meat markets in most other place just sells the sex

pretty simple:P

[videoswitchboard]

having a VJ in a club to play visuals over your tunes doesn't guarantee it's going to be good (i.e: to your taste).

I think it's ok if audio artists (DJs or live act) with a strong direction who would rather have no visuals than take the risk to play alongside imagery they don't like. I think it's a sign they somehow think about the visual element and that the scene is slowly evolving towards an integrated audio-visual experience- acts who get to produce their own visuals are doing the right thing.
Blackout are often the best bit of a club night and a number of experimental musicians get their audience blindfolded to fully appreciate the sonic experiment-

However if someone's been booked to Vj at a club and they're being asked to shut down on the night; it's frankly rude.


Autechre played at Eskrima (Glasgow School of Art) where i'm the resident. They said well in advance that the gig would happen in total darkness and with no flash photography. I wasn't that pissed off because i had a gig abroad anyway, but, by all account, it did make the night very special.

It seems that so many VJs have got a bone to pick with either DJs, promoters, Lighting crews.
By trying to walk all over each other, you'll make your club as bad as all the other comercial operations. If you can't respect the guys you're playing with (and vice versa): play somewhere else.

We all know most DeeJays are pushy wankers, and we've nothing to gain by following their example.

dav
www.pointlesscreations.co.uk (http://www.pointlesscreations.co.uk)

[Rovastar]

From what I have heard I'll be adding a few DJs to this list after the Big Chill. Let's see if really don't want VJs.

[vjrei]

If I was a DJ and I wouldn't know the VJ I would call for black as well.

Moby does the same, you just do not know what the VJ is going to play. What if the VJ play a clip of Bush father Vs Bush son? or a Vietnam clip? something that is not realted at all with the mood you want to stablish with your music.

I mean, I have seen Vjs around and is hard to find a good show specially if you are already a DJ performer with a name and your act.

Again, the VJ has to go together with the music, a VJ is NEVER an independent artist in a dance floor. DJ and VJ have to create the inmersion of the audience in to the mood, I said that 4 years ago around here.

I am telling you that because I am a musician too and my point of view is different than just the average VJ that is most of the time an experimental video editor of some sort.

I respect their point of view. Now, do not take it personally, they just do not know if your material is going to be in harmony with the mood they want to create, in that case, is better to leave eveything to the audience imagination and that is it.

I think is a good thing because now no one with just a laptop can be a VJ, people are getting educated in the matter. Eventually the DJs will ask for the VJ material before the show because the audience will ask for a VJ too.

Evolution.

[revjrbobdodds]

I have to agree. The VJ scene has become mature enough now that I don't think anyone walks into a club and says, "Oh wow, they have visuals." It's much more about whether they work with the show or not. I'm a VJ, but I've also booked VJs. Sometimes it went well, but sometimes, despite exercising due diligence, AND fully debriefing the VJ weeks in advance, it was a fucking disaster.

I've also, as a VJ, been thrown in the deep end at the last minute with DJs I frankly shouldn't have been playing with. Our styles clashed completely.

I mostly DJ and DVJ now. To be honest, I'd only work with a VJ I knew and trusted -- given the choice. Otherwise, it's my video set with my DJ set. Ultimately, I think this is best. For me anyway.

[akira_k]

I think, in those cases, the artist should get a VJ of his preference, one that works WITH HIM to make a show according to what he wants to depict.

[unjulation]

pos tired drunk coment ;) -

i think a lot depends upon wether the vj see themselves as an artist in there own right or wether they see themselves as only existing because the dj exists and is doing there ting -

ie the way i go into any gig is that i see myself within the hiaraquey of the overall situatation/social set up and work within those peramitors so wehatever i play i would hope that it would fit within the mood of the musick - not nesciserialy the actualy timeing -

the older i get the slower i get and the less i can actualy dance and time the beat with my body movements but the more i actualy understand some kind of subtably that is happaning within the space -

pro's and con's i serpose

so what struck me was dj's espescialy named ones would be warey of alowing anyone who they felt would change the musical space that they are trying to create -

maybey a bit oversimplelfiication but it feels that it rings true in some way

[vjrei]

A few years ago I found a Mac magazine from early 90's...

The computer they were selling didn't have any askpect actually just:

"Better performance, faster, more colors!"

People were not educated still, no one had an idea of what a MHz was. Later on people started to dig into the thing and ask for details in the features.

So, now, everybody knows everything, even details that does not matter at the end.

VJing is going towards that direction.

For example, I barely create my own footage. Many people critizise me about that but is my performance what it counts to me and people like it depending on the DJ too of course.

I went to a New York club when I was there and I rememeber a VJ who had 2 V4, DVD player and Powerbook. She was just playing the same footage for at list two hours, a video of some girls playing with fire on a field. The footage was not for a dance floor and... 2 V4 for that????

Is time to recall my therat about "Type of VJs" because there are visual artist and actual VJs perce (inside our comunity). I am a dance floor VJ and do not ask me about decorating a location or performing in a museum, I have no clue about that :alien:

[vjrei]

Originally posted by akira_k
I think, in those cases, the artist should get a VJ of his preference, one that works WITH HIM to make a show according to what he wants to depict.

Eventually but so far the VJ implies more logistics and more $$$ for the show. I can see that hapening locally.

Usually, based on my experience at the Ultra Music Festival, records labels brings their own DVD with the name of the lable doing things and ask the VJ to play it back and that is it.

On the other hand one band paid to their VJ $5.000 even the VJ was charging to do the event on that stage.:yep:

[akira_k]

It all depends on the VJ as well. Whenever someone comes to play I investigate about them (if I don't know them already) and create a set according to what they do.

Sasha is known for not wanting visuals on his sets however go to www.djsasha.com and you'll find a video of his last gig in Buenos Aires, where he played in front of a huge LED screen (and more, there were at least 4 more screens in the field) and didn't ever moan about it, actually, that video's edition seems to focus on my visuals quite a lot, probably he liked them at least a bit otherwise they wouldn't be in the website. Audio in the video seems from the actual session.

So there.


And Rei, I'm getting quite tired about your story about New York, a girl and two V4s. Get over with it and dedicate yourself to doing some content instead of venting spleen about someone in a forum.

[jeffhtg]

yeah yeah.. there are jerks in this world both vj and dj alike. Most of the time the VJ is hired just as a LD would be.. to enchance the party.. *USUALLY* the dj is the main act and the VJ is the supporting talent. So if the dj doesnt like the vj's stuff i think he has the right to call for something else.. the old standby cams is what i use to piss of djs lol. (of course no dj on this planet would date tell me turn off my super-dope viz)

as far as blasting 'audio guys'.. id like to see you try and unload a truck full of audio gear.. lift 200lb speakers into place and whatnot.. show some respect where respect is due.

Lighting education 101 : a "roboscan" is a old martin light - a 512 or 218 which have been phased out many years ago.. this club hush (if using martin brand lights) is more than likely using the newer mx series lights and i saw a couple yokes in there. and that spider thing is a little crazy.. and more than a bit tacky. Isnt hush a latin club?? I had some friends looking at it.. I guess its for sale.

[Stuart]

there are visual artist and actual VJs


false dichotomy

I consider myself both

[DrEskaton]

Originally posted by Stuart
false dichotomy

I consider myself both

wouldn't it actually be useful for us to distinguish between a "live video performer" who creates and mixes their own content and a VJ who remixes prerecorded DVD's or VHS tapes?

In the music world there is a clear distinction between a music creator and a DJ. When an individual does both they always specify for an event if they are doing a Live set or a DJ set. Sometimes they play a live set then a DJ set and that's also specified.

As a promoter if I want to book for example Hallucinogen I have to pay him more and provide considerably more gear to get him to do a live set than if I book a Simon Posford DJ set.

Wouldn't a clear distinction like this actually help the VJ/live video performance scene?

[sleepytom]

i think the live / not live / vj / video artist debate is about as ridiculous as you can get! its never made any sence even in the audio world (eg lots of mainstream "live" bands are playing to a DAT - there are DJs who mix entirly self produced dub plates and the whole ableton live thing has further blured the boundrys)

lets just use one VJ example - imagine if you can a girl who mixes mainly her own self produced footage off multiple DVD players. what should we call her? live video artist? VJ? Live VJ artist? ArtJ?

personally i'm comming to favor the term vidiot or VeeJit (as in oi you fecking VeeJit!)

[DrEskaton]

ok the distinction should be "original content producer" vs "remixer" then.

I agree the argument is blurred even with musicians now, sure I've seen a "live" musician hit play on cubase or ableton and do nothing else.

but the point is they still are billed as live and command a higher fee as a "live performer".

I do feel that in the VJ world the fact that there is no distinction similiar to the DJ/live muscian paradigm is something that hurts the whole scene....

the point is making original creative content is hard... it's many times more work than sampling to create a set. Those who make the effort should be recognized and rewarded in an ideal world.

by using the same word for a VJ (DJ analog) and a VJ (live performer analog) we do us all a disfavour.

I fear this problem will get worse with more and "ready to mix" DVD's coming out and it would be in our interest to try and maintain a distinction.

[videoswitchboard]

I agree with you Eskaton,
But Tom is right in the sense that if there had been another catchy name to compete with VJ it would have started to surface by now (if anybody has one... pleaaase...let it be known).

This leaves us with the "VJ" vs. "Artist" dialectic that has been discussed in (too much?) depth in many threads.

"producer" implies "not nescessarilly performer"
"remixer" implies "haven't produced any of it"
In reality, most VJs and video performers often do a bit of everything.

I think that when a VJ/producer/artist/performer does something so well that people start taking notice, their means of production start becoming irrelevant, and those lucky ones will start getting known by their OWN names rather than their monikers.

"visuals by" remains one of my favorite (nicely understated too).

here's a good example of such quality cunts (yes the VJ still has his name very small in comparison).
http://theartschool.co.uk/images/rec16big.gif

now here's an audio artist who positively encourages live video experimentation!


dav
www.pointlesscreations.co.uk (http://www.pointlesscreations.co.uk)

[ristuuk]

a gig i was recently working at had an act
-big name own visuals-not wanting to mention it-
who requested no visuals on stage during their performance
-it turned out that the fella who usually did visuals for them was away somewhere
thought that was quite nice really, a bit of loyalty from a band!

[jeffhtg]

yeah well.. lets talk about this live show crap for a bit.. I mix bands (audio).. and i mix visuals(my love).. and i also mix track acts. I've done it all.

for the most part electronic live shows are a joke. So i wouldnt go talking to big about live performers and trying to bash vjs on the vj forums.

[xiayu]

I've encountered many dj's who did not allow vjs to play during their set. Sasha&Digweed, Paul Oakenfold, Fatboy Slim, Tiesto, BadboyBill, etc. The fact is with promoter brought video the dj never knows what he's going to get and whether or not it will reflect or take away from his music or not. I honestly don't think it's a insecurity issue. Some I've worked with also had a contractual obligation not to play anyones visuals other than their own vjs. Like for Oakenfold I had to loop a dvd they gave me(of crappy visuals).

[akira_k]

Originally posted by xiayu
I've encountered many dj's who did not allow vjs to play during their set. Sasha&Digweed, Paul Oakenfold, Fatboy Slim, Tiesto, BadboyBill, etc.
Read above. I successfully had done visuals for Sasha & Digweed, you can see that on their own website right now. That was the second time for me. And Anyone?s done it as well.

So I suppose it all depends on the VJ

[MoRpH]

I have also done stuff for them both back in the past, and also done sasha solo shows in australia.

That said I can see why an artist would want some sort of control over the video aspect of things, however I would prefer to see this resolved with more artist COLLABORATING with local VJs via briefs and sample DVDs, and even artists taking VJs on national tours (after designing a show to spec) or even internationally... rather than having them demand simply NO VISUALS.

[murk]

If I were a DJ, I would not want visuals from someone I did not know.

[videoteque]

If I were a DJ, I would not want visuals from someone I did not know.

If I were a DJ who makes thousands of dollars per night, I would spend some time finding a good VJ and travel with him/her to play. Or at least I will have the VJ make GOOD quality visuals.

Neither of this points seems to be the rule...

[akira_k]

Agreed with videoteque. they should have a VJ to tour with them.

[Pandora]

Ok .....I think im a good person to chime in on this......

I write and record music-
I spin records-
I mix live visuals-
I set-up and design stage displays.
I set-up and design audio and video systems-

Ive worked in every type of venue from
private parties to 'massives'
For nobody's and world famous acts.


So.....the big thing i havent seen anyone mention is this......

If your dj/vj acts clash its because the
booking agent or promoter DID NOT DO
HIS/HER HOMEWORK!

Most DJ's will agree....
That if theyre hired to play its because of what they are known for playing......
(unlike a wedding/corporate jock who will play whatever you want)

The VJ should be the same.....
if you have to ask me over and over what i play and demand samples, than you obviously have never seen me play. So why the hell are you hiring me?!!!!

If the booking agent isnt putting together a cohesive line-up than why should any of the acts suffer the embarrasment of being asked to stop performing?

Unfortunatley entertainment is filled
with assholes that cut corners and never want to accept any responsibility.
The sad truth is we all have to be on our toes.....Every gig is a decision.....
Get all the info you can.....and if you cant get the info you need to make the decision, say no......and if someone books you to mix for an act that dosent want you there......dont take bookings from them.....

The more of us that deal with bullshit like this, the more it will continue.

[disassembler]

http://www.sillyjokes.co.uk/images/p-jokes/evilsweets/fart-sweets-big.jpg

[akira_k]

Originally posted by Pandora
If your dj/vj acts clash its because the
booking agent or promoter DID NOT DO
HIS/HER HOMEWORK!
Sorry, that depends.

The VJ could also do his/her homework and create a set according to what the DJ/musician is all about.

Everytime I got to do visuals, if I do not know the artist i've got to VJ with, I investigate, by asking the promoter, by listening to sets, etc., and prepare a set accordingly. If I really don't think I can acomodate to the artist, I can politely put down the gig.

To each set I give it my own style, it's not like "I always work with pictures of China so only get me chinese artists"!!!! Do you work like this?

Also, you can't make a DJ analogy regarding styles. There are stablished music styles that DJs tend to play with. Please tell me about VJing styles that people can tend to play with, and their direct analogy with music styles that DJs play.

So, I wouldn't go on blaming it on the promoter completely.

[Pandora]

Originally posted by akira_k


The VJ could also do his/her homework and create a set according to what the DJ/musician is all about.


As i said....get all the info you can and make the decision to whether or not its a good gig for you.

Originally posted by akira_k

Also, you can't make a DJ analogy regarding styles. There are stablished music styles that DJs tend to play with. Please tell me about VJing styles that people can tend to play with, and their direct analogy with music styles that DJs play.


Ok.....

While its nowhere near as solid as music genres there are still basics that can be applied.....

For instance......

Mixing clips of gore, horror, violence, etc
works great for industrial or hardcore and not much else......

Ill try and make this simple....
Would you hire tiesto and ask him to spin hardcore?.......no you wouldnt.....
Just like your not going to ask a VJ thats known for good horror mixes to collect material and mix for a trance set.....

So again.....
Its the booking agent's/promoter's job to put together a group of performers that all fit the general vibe they want for their event....
and if they arent familiar with a VJ's work, why are they hiring him?.....do you think they would hire a dj without knowing anything about his style?
Ofcourse not.





anyways...its worth noting that im very cranky today.....im doing my best, as always, to be constructive in sharing my experience, so if I sound like a jerk at all, forgive me.....thats not my intention.

[holly]

Originally posted by Pandora
If your dj/vj acts clash its because the
booking agent or promoter DID NOT DO
HIS/HER HOMEWORK!
It wasn't a matter of clashing since the contract rider apparently said NO visuals and NO lights..., but yes the promoter could have saved some of my annoyance (I could have packed up and been on the truck) and also a ton of money for not hiring me....

None of this addresses the specific incident that shows the DJ wasn't professional himself and caused a huge delay in the night (at least 40 minutes of peaktime). Why does this guy have a rider to shut everyone else down when he doesn't even have his own shit together?

The VJ could also do his/her homework and create a set according to what the DJ/musician is all about.

Everytime I got to do visuals, if I do not know the artist i've got to VJ with, I investigate, by asking the promoter, by listening to sets, etc., and prepare a set accordingly.

Well, this thread IS part of that homework. I don't know where I would have found out DeepDish doesn't allow lighting -- other than from another LD or VJ.... Of course, again, the promoter could have told me....

Meanwhile, I was hired to entertain the crowd, not play to a DJ. I know my specific show is different from the typical VJ (portable bluescreen on the dancefloor), but I was hired as an artist (along with a whole circus of artists: speed portraitist, roving personalities, etc). The loophole was I had a video componant, therefore my act is "VJ/lighting". It's not a matter of style.... The DJ was shit, but I didn't make demands on him.... But there are plenty of DJs I wouldn't want to perform with, but if a promoter has hired me I CAN do my job professionally, and without attitude or imposing on other people's work.

[vjnixmix]

this is an interesting thread. I wonder how many people given the situation would oblige to this scenario: say the promoter didn't do his homework as Pandora suggests (which I wholly agree with) and the DJ shows up and hates your content and asks you to play something "More colorful" or "more happy" - how many of you would go ahead without being pissed? To what point is this tolerable or rude?

The couple times I've heard of this happening - the VJs were fine with sitting there working on there own content or getting something done while getting paid - it was the promoters loss for poor planning.

One time at this cheezy club they told me to stop mixing and put on the basketball game - while I disagreed - I was fine with getting paid to do nothing ;)

I see holly's situation as unique, btw because as she mentioned she was hired for a different style of VJ/Visuals then your typical - throw on some contect type of a gig.

[holly]

Originally posted by vjnixmix
the DJ shows up and hates your content and asks you to play something "More colorful" or "more happy" - how many of you would go ahead without being pissed? To what point is this tolerable or rude?
I'm sure I would understand if it really didn't fit. I've played with DJs who were all over the place experimental/noise and tbh my stuff looked rediculous next to it. I was franticly looking for just an ambient dvd to put on but I didn't pack anything worthy. It was a very looooong night and I felt like a fool with my clubby girls and vegas sparkle backgrounds.:help: I wished someone had told me..., but then again when we book guest DJs at EYEWASH we always ask what style they will be doing and if the bother to respond at all it is always some sort of vague description like "intelligent fargle and jangle snort". That's an exageration, but DJs always think they play a wide range from retro to cutting edge..., and that's assuming they've ever even thought of how to describe their style at all! Don't they know they need to fit in a convenient box with a clearly written label?!;)

I suppose VJs are no better. I've read descriptions that said stuff like "no media is safe from this sample-genius" and it is no description at all except they use samples! More often they will describe their method ("oh, I use resolume and etc") and not their aesthetic....

Maybe we should set up some emergency mixes for those nights you find yourself suprised to be playing to insert music genre you have no footage for here. Lots of VJs have gotten hiphop gigs and all they had was spacy techno, etc. I remember there was an attempt to post all the likely DJ genres (maybe my imagination?) and the visuals that go with them.... hmmm, makes me think I should just tape some television close-ups and non-descript distortion.... LEVLHED help me out!:love:

[akira_k]

Originally posted by holly
but if a promoter has hired me I CAN do my job professionally, and without attitude or imposing on other people's work.
Agreed 100%

I tend to be pretty damn flexible and can accomodate -my style- to different sort of venues, so I cannot see it the way Pandora does. I do not "play XXX type of videos" or "use resolume", I think I can define my style pretty damn well and accomodate any request I get to that style, so I can be dark, or bright, -in my own style-. I don't think I am the only one doing this, many VJs probably work this way.

"intelligent fargle and jangle snort"

LOL! :D:D:D:heart:

[WordVirus23]

so I played with Bad Boy Bill tonight........

good show of ~1000 ppl
3 screens
2 cameras
1 laptop
1 v4 mixer
and
1 dvd player (as per contract tech rider)
(note: I was booked Tuesday, shown the tech rider and venue yesterday)
[stupid favors to friends]

Bill brought a dvd to play during his set... it was entirely black and white footage of dancing girls (great to mix with, right?) rough/hard cut mixed with a few cube transitions (which sometimes just stopped at odd places[black cube white BG, girl upside down, etc])
however, his manager insisted that the dvd be played straight, no mix.

so I let it ride....

and had a drink.

then came back to mix..... it's my job! my passion.

a few times.

manager guy came up to me several times, finally saying that if I didn't stop mixing he'd "pull the plug on the whole thing".

quotes from manager guy:

the dvd is synched with his set
----BS. it was a 20 min loop, no audio

A. Don't mix, just let the dvd play
B. If you're going to mix, mix *just* the cameras or *just* the dvd.
------make up your mind already.

if you don't stop, we'll never play here again.
------for as much $ as you're making, you should say *thanks*

I was good, I finally left the venue, walked 3 blocks to another club where the manager bought me a drink and lined up a regular saturday gig for twice as much.

Needless to say I'm not real thrilled with the coming trend of dj's travelling with DVD's....

:zzz:

..james...

[WordVirus23]

there were 2 professional photographers on hand to record moments of the night.... Bill blatantly turned his back on them.

at one point in a yelling over the speakers conversation with manager guy I said the following about me mixing, which I thought was appropriate for the situation (before I knew they'd snubbed the cameras)

"listen, I don't tell the photog's how to take a picture....."

(in essense: why're you telling me how to do my job?)



:grrr:

[DrEskaton]

word presumably you were supposed to do visuals for the other dj's before and after his set right?

in your situation I would have gone along, done exactly what they asked and let the dvd play straight.....

... and then right after he finished playing go back to mixing proper beat synced visuals that made his random out of sync stuff look crap....

pissing them off by arguuing on stage is not professional and does you no favors.

[videobrian]

in general, the d.j. (or band or whatever) is the most important part of the show.

it's all about the music. not that visuals don't add something.

i can understand a d.j. asking for no video, lights, smoke machine, whatever... special mixer setup, sure.

you can always put (no dj, no audio) in your rider.

[LEVLHED]

Originally posted by holly
.... hmmm, makes me think I should just tape some television close-ups and non-descript distortion.... LEVLHED help me out!:love:
I'm workin on it, I'm workin on it!

I don't really do the noise stuff I'm (in)famous for at (said) cheesy clubs..its just not the right place for that. I keep it clean and cheesy because thats what works for that. If you look at it as more of a job than an outlet for creative expression it becomes easier to deal with the crap.

as for james being 'nonprofessional', yeah OK he could have been more cooperative..but then sometimes you just *have* to fuck with people a little bit. he made that manager work for his money by forcing him to do manager-stuff :)

as I said before though, and others have put it that way too. if they REALLY don't want video there, fuck it! turn it off and go have a smoke. when they are done, turn it back on and go balls out to show everyone there what a difference you make to the atmosphere. don't look at it as cramping your style, look at it is an oppourtunity to enhance your impact!

[DrEskaton]

Originally posted by LEVLHED


as for james being 'nonprofessional', yeah OK he could have been more cooperative..but then sometimes you just *have* to fuck with people a little bit. he made that manager work for his money by forcing him to do manager-stuff :)


I dunno, by all means let the manager know what you think after the show but personally I think arguuing or being non cooperative during a performance is unprofessional...

work out the differences later...

[holly]

Except he got a regular saturday at twice the fee. That was the good part of the story.:love:

Turns out I'm going to play Hush in Houston again.... Wonder who'd DJing.

Maybe I should hire a DJ to give me a 2+hr dvd of a great mix so I can say "you HAVE to play this audio or I'll show ***** all night!"

[WordVirus23]

professionalism would have been to tell me their plan during soundcheck, not after I'd been mixing all night; on stage.
professionalism would have been to book me more than 4 days before the show. So hey, I work with what I'm given, as professionally as possible. I even talked w/ them during soundcheck, they were rude then too.
<rolls eyes>
apparently it's okay to be rude if you're "famous"

reap what yee sow.

----------
I would've talked with the guys after the show, but they split the second the show was over. (DivaJ's)


..james...

[DrEskaton]

yeah ok fair enough..

if they want a specific visuals at certain times they should tell you as soon as they can...

in advance is even better,

[Amukidi]

..or maybe folks shouldn't assume that everyone wants visuals...!! It's clearly not just the DJs that are divas;)