16mm realities

[LEVLHED]

so, last night found me trolling ebay for super8 cams..always tempted to throw the dice and snag one of those....then I wonder what my old-shool vidiot friend thinks of the format...he emails me right back, gives me his opinion and offers me his Bolex 16mm cam!
now, I'm hesitant to consider super8 in the first place, much less 16mm. I can barely take decent footage with my 3ccd hi8! but (of course) I'm very intrigued and like a moth to a flame I'm looking into what it really means to start toying with 16mm today.

I've read all of the threads/posts on super8 (which is what got me started lookin at it in the first place), but I'd like to learn more about 16mm.
who wants to talk me in/out of it?

[sleepytom]

its basically the same as 8mm but more expensive and higher quality.

you can project the developed film on a film projector or have it telecined to video.

if you can't capture and edit any video better that DV then there is little point shooting on s16 as you'll lose much of its quality when TK'd to DV.

if you want high quality aquisition HDV is lots cheaper and much easier than 16mm (even if you have a free 16mm camera)

how important is depth of field to your VJing?

[KillingFrenzy]

My whole thought is that if you're going for the film aesthetic then Super 8 is just as good as 16 for that purpose.
I shot a whole bunch of stuff last spring and summer and ended up with about an hour worth of footage for about $600. If I'd done the same thing on 16, it would have been at least 2 to 5x as much. For what I ended up with, which is a bunch of funky high-contrast, grainy textures and skittery stop-motion footage, I'm pretty happy. If I'd spent $2000 for it, I'm not sure I'd be so happy.

My thought is to use Super 8 for avante-garde textural weirdness.

DV for documentation and "clean" footage you can add effects to. Also for stuff where you need some shots for a particular show.

16 for something like a short or a very focused project where you know you only need x number of shots.

and 35mm when you catch a leprechaun or sell your soul to MTV.

[LEVLHED]

thanks guys, I guess thats what I was thinking anyway.
if I'm doing it for a "film look" then super8 makes the most sense. also considering resolution, since I'm not planning on live 16mm projections the added rez is completely lost.
KF, was that $600 before or after the cam?

[LEVLHED]

ah so now, I may end up inheriting a half dozen or so 16mm projectors! and have access to a 16mm bolex cam as well...
and I can't get the image of a room bathed in glitched out techy sync noise out of my hed:crazy: :help:

[brain]

if you want to digitize the shot sequences, 8mm gives you a raw and special look.

if you want to use film as live medium (you can even build physical loops with film), 16mm is way better. keep in mind most 8mm projectors are made for living room use and have low brightness, where 16mm was used mostly in educational or arthouse cinemas - much brighter and professional projectors.

transport/setup of gear is much more hassle, but you get something very different than your normal beamer look.

film is a totally different medium after all. using it will affect all aspects of your work. great chance to evolve, but challenging and demanding.

[cat]

Yeah if you love the glitch, which do, you'll love fucked up 16mm! I love a room full of 16mm's, damn site cheaper to buy (or be given) 10 16mm than 10 video projectors! Of course there the comnbination of film and video as well! They are more of a pain in the arse though, if you work alone they're a lot of work, if theirs 2 or more of you, they're a lot more managable!
They tend to have long lens though so you need big rooms to get them to look their best!

cat

[Amukidi]

Nice thing about 16mm, Lev, is that it is just big enough to fool around with the film manually - ie, you can scratch the surface, draw and paint on it, scrape words and shit onto it, soak it in solvent etc. I guess this would really appeal to you, and I think you'll find it an incredible journey of discovery! Nice meeting you at AVIT btw:)

[InsideUsAll]

yes lev 16mm solvent abuse would be right up ur street i think, the same kind of distructive noisy content disturbance, abut with a beautifully unpredictable analogue look, mmmmmm