Why do peeps still use square/rectangle screens?

[vjpixylight]

..its kinda like having the choise of 101 flavors of ice cream and always get vanilla...:rolleyes:

[sleepytom]

video is 4:3 (or 16:9) so its actually very hard to create round video or blob shaped or whatever unless you are working only with 3d renders or very abstract footage.

most of the stuff i've seen on round screens has simply been masked off 4:3 video which doesn't look very good as genrally it was not shot to look good on a round screen

[vjpixylight]

why isn't there a QT or win media format for round screen presentations, or some geometric form other that retangle?

I think it would be soo cool to be able to get web mixes up that look diferent from the usual screen shape perspective..

Is there any html code for QT that can set the screen viewer options to something other than a 4:3 perspective?(ie round, of geometrically shaped)

thanks

[KillingFrenzy]

The way I look at it, making a funny shaped screen just limits you to a particular format for the whole show, since it usually means cropping down your original image. A big square canvas that uses the entire projector output then allows you a playing field to compose however you like. I'm trying to build more masking options into my Max/Jitter patch for just this purpose. That's my reasoning. Creative screenmaking is fun, but getting the time/budget out of people is difficult for 95% of the events I do.

[solly]

Round shapes or other shapes screens are more attractive I think.

[neoteo]

this is an interesting topic , cose cinema as 100 years with rectangle images , foto as well most of the time rectangle ..

imo is becose it cover a biger area of image when looking in front near , it fills completely your view ... if it was circle shape you would see the black corners ...

i see vjing as free style cinema , so circle and other shape fotage sounds inovative ... but as you said before , its only a mask of your 4 3 inicial shape

if you are thinking in making a circle shape projector , when you want to see a squere footage you will lose space too

masking in real time changing position of mask in real time ... cool

[akira_k]

There's a reason for 4:3, it seems that it's a format that the eye can easily digest, and that's why it's used, but not sure.

I have used round and triangular screens, with material specially shot for the situation (cropping 4:3 video to a round screen is pure arse).

Personally I dont like this sort of screens because you sont have much space to work with, and I really dont like how circular screens look. as I said Im talking about using them with specally made content. I still don't like them.

When we worked with the triangular screens it was fun, but we only did it twice. Lots of space have been wasted also.

When version 3 of our website is online you will see teh work we did on those screens.

[djnada]

Like Solly's screen image, odd shaped screens do look cool. I guess you can project the 4:3 image on a different shaped screen and deal with the loss of the edges (pure arse?). I really liked a previous thread that showed floating ball screens. I did an "avante-garde" fashion show years ago that used a parachute pulled back into a conical shape to project on. This warped out the projection so that it all looked weird and quite cool. That was around 1985 at the Limbo Lounge in its East ninth street incarnation, if anyone is interested in such things. The video I did from that was banned because the finale featured clear plastic clothing, IE everyone looked essentially naked! I believe the brainchild behind the parachute idea was a woman who called herself "Batislavia." Her shop on Avenue A and 10th street was also created in all odd angles and shapes, reminding me of photos of Kurt Schwitter's Merzbau.

[neoteo]

a nice idea if you hapend to be near the projector is to use real objects to crop the light , with bizarre shapes .. dancing with it sounds good ... put could anoy if not very well done i imagine :rolleyes:

[robotfunk]

you can make a quicktime movie any (rectangular) size you want. you can include a bitmap mask with the design of your choice > any shape qt you'd like. just use quicktime pro.

[DFUNC]

Yeah I agree with akira and robotfunk.

You waste space, but I did a gig where I just put a black / transparent mask as a top layer. Of course I had some clips distorted in After Effects to give it more perspective. Easy and does the fun job.

But for everday clubs & events I prefer big big 4:3 screens.
:yep:

[vjMediUm]

about masking the beamer lens with
black masking tape then then build the screen according to the beam. if you work abstract you get nice results.
i did this intalation with beam on wired cubes
it look very cool

[charlielangridge]

We have a screen in the shape of the Rho-D logo, which was fun, and we used it with a slide projector, but it wouldt really work with our usual style. ATM we are working on a set where the projection is onto the walls and the video interacts with pictures, windows doors etc. Hard work and needs a big ol beamer, but should look good!

[rickmaersk]

this is an interesting topic , cose cinema as 100 years with rectangle images , foto as well most of the time rectangle ..

imo is becose it cover a biger area of image when looking in front near , it fills completely your view ... if it was circle shape you would see the black corners ...


A projected film image is rectangular because a single frame is rectangular. A single frame is rectangular so that all the individual frames fit together on a continuous strip without wasting any precious emulsion area. Video is rectangular for practical compatability reasons.

The reason the rectangle is landscape format is because of ergonomics. Our field of vision is wider than it is high- we have two eyes side by side not one on top of the other.

As for choosing odd shaped screens I think it depends on why you are using screens at all. In my experience there are two reasons (not mutually exclusive) for putting screens in a space:
1. to display content.
2. as an item of production value.

Item 1 is self explanatory- if you are in a sports bar there are screens for showing soccer. If it's a cinema the screen is for showing films.

Item 2...If you are promoting a dance music event in a space that normally has no screens then the very fact that someone has bothered to put up screens and show anything on them adds something to the event. It shows that the promoter cares. It may even add to the atmosphere. Unless of course the screen is a big white sheet and there is no atmosphere in which case you may be at a Godspeed you Black Emperor gig. Then the screen is just for displaying content, see item 1.

A typical reason for choosing odd shaped screens would be to increase the production value at an event. So that punters are impressed the instant they walk into a venue- I used to use 6 ft weather balloons for this reason. After that you are back to trying to engage them with content. Pink Floyd's circular screen was a production design choice- it still needed good content.

As for the original question of why more Vjs don't use odd shaped screens I suppose it's because it's too much effort. I get the impression that most newbies want to be the VJ equivilant of a DJ and just walk into a venue, plug in and play.

I'd still like to to project onto something ultra wide (12:3) but that curves in plan.

Cheers
Rick

[sleepytom]

http://www.gaiaspace.co.uk/images/tbw_glasto2004/AliDome2_Glasto2004_Screens4.jpg

[RootsDigitalized]

Custom Screens

We did it before, for fashion show stage.

http://www.rootsdigitalized.com/temp/FashionShow02.jpg

http://www.rootsdigitalized.com/temp/FashionShow04.jpg

you can download the movie too :

http://www.rootsdigitalized.com/temp/RootsBinHouse.wmv

[vjpixylight]

thatpic represents almost the same plan that we will be setting up for the AVit Retreat!!
Instead of pentagons tho, we will be using hexagons, and 5 of them..

that pic is awesome tho...cheers

[Kyle]

Some nice shots and explanations....thanks for sharing everyone. Lots of ideas swirling around in my head now.

[vjpixylight]

Originally posted by RootsDigitalized
Custom Screens

We did it before, for fashion show stage.

http://www.rootsdigitalized.com/temp/FashionShow02.jpg

http://www.rootsdigitalized.com/temp/FashionShow04.jpg

you can download the movie too :

http://www.rootsdigitalized.com/temp/RootsBinHouse.wmv

nice stuff there M8!
was that all sheer fabric, that was hung all serpentine and swirly, It looks like??

[sleepytom]

hey Tom, who did the penta-yurt setup?? http://www.gaiaspace.co.uk/
that picture is from glastonbury last year - they have a full roof cover now with intergrated screens.

[cat]

I started off with 16mm and slides and used to project onto any and every surface imaginable from balloons to parachutes to ceilings, gauze, muslin, 5x20ft screens (vertical), and got paid a pitance for a hell of a lot of work, a lot less than decor companies get for sticking up some UV drops. A small show would be about 10 projectors, large 20-30, in general I would be paid less than doing 1 screen video of projection, despite old school projections taking a lot more work than video, so from my point of view the reason I dont use odd shaped screens that much anymore is budget, and all the venues that are good for weird screens tend to large, and certainly in Birmingham there are no decent large venues anymore unless you count the meatmarket clubs which I simply dont have time for anymore!

[kallisti]

my 2 cents...

the reason why most ppl stick with the rectangle is that is what we are culturally conditioned to accept... the argument about saving emulsion was important for the first 20-30 years, but after that, ppl were already used to it, and most tech was designed that way... it's hard enough being a vj, in that originally, most of us picked at the edges of technology, and used it for something a little different than what that tech was designed/anticipated for... but then we have to go and totally shake up the system that was already entrenched...

the vj market boomed a bit when projectors got cheap... part of it was cheaper tech, and that brought a bigger market (home theatre types, business ppl who wanted a cheap way to show off that powerpoint presentation...etc).. those are markets that would have no real use for odd shaped screens...

i'm all for doing something a lil bit different, but until the tech evolves to the point that hex/penta/octo/squiggly screens are so easy to use and set up, and masking/cropping/editing footage is painless and not-time-consuming... i'll stick with the path of least resistance...

vjs' don't really need the extra hassle... it's hard enough to find gigs that pay what you are worth, to get the respect that we deserve.

[RootsDigitalized]

Originally posted by vjpixylight
nice stuff there M8!
was that all sheer fabric, that was hung all serpentine and swirly, It looks like??

thank you, vjpixylight.

did you watch the movie?

actually we build two stages connect with catwalk and the pics I send it before just one of two stages.

If you've download the movie, you can see the both stages.

We used stretch fabric, easy to and we use thin sil fabric too. too custmed the size and shapes, we used the steel straind...

than hang up with fishing nylon...

yes, that was hung all serpentine and swirly and layering too.

[Kyle]

Definitely some good points...When are djs gonna step outside of the box and start spinning square vinyl.:D

[many2]

To make a good show on non-traditional screens (even something as simple as a 16:9) you really have to make custom content for it, and that's a lot of work.

Masking your output (either physically or in software) is only "step one". 4:3 content with a round mask can be fun, but circular content specially made to take advantage of the screen shape will be much better, so much better in fact.

With a circular screen you begin to think in ways of angle and distance (radial vectors) instead of height and width. This radically changes the way you think of composition.

With widescreens, domes and panoramic screens you think about horizon and rotation. The camera point of view is also completely different.

[oxygen]

Using diferent screensizes, and other projection-methods enhances the impact of your visuals so much, you'll never want to get back to the taste of vanilla icecream..

That Dome-setup at Glasto, was supposted to be with a roof too, but because of the heavy winds, before the festival started, it wasn't allowed. Eventually it happened to be a quite good experience, (IMO) because more then 3 third of the crowd OUSIDE the tent could also enjoy the atmo+visuals. It was jamm-packed outside the tent saterday-night. And it looked beautifull from a distance!

[Stuart]

To make a good show on non-traditional screens (even something as simple as a 16:9)
you really have to make custom content for it, and that's a lot of work.


so true. I do a lot of funky formats for work and play, and while often rewarding, it is a pain in the ass.

[LEVLHED]

Originally posted by vjpixylight
..its kinda like having the choise of 101 flavors of ice cream and always get vanilla...:rolleyes:

because I can't afford chocolate and it only makes me break out in zits anyway.

anybody know if its possible/how to make a hexagram-shaped mask using the "cookie cutter" effect/plug in Vegas?

[akira_k]

Originally posted by djnada I guess you can project the 4:3 image on a different shaped screen and deal with the loss of the edges (pure arse?) Yep it's pure arse IMO. As mentioned before, for oddly-shaped screens to shine, your content needs to be created SPECIFICALLY for them, and not just crop any old video with the new shape. Otherwise you are probably mostly wasting the screen, and lots of space.

I also suppose it depends on your style of visuals, Solly's photo shows some texture/plasma/fractal/tunnel stuff, which I can believe wouldn't be hurt by cropping it to any shape whatsoever you desire. but in my case I work with content that does not allow for "just cropping it". The way I dispose of space and how I compose means to me that I have to create knowing in which medium I will project. I know a promoter asked us to do this once and even after we told him it would look shit, he went with it. As soon as he realized how shit it was, never repeated the mistake again in further events.