VJ Interface design

[steeley]

Hi there,
Im just about to start designing an interface to a real-time visual manipulation engine. It is designed to handle and generate almost any kind of visual media.
I'm particularly interested in three areas:

1/ Problems with browsing and searching for media to use in your performances.
2/ Sequencing the media together to create a performance.
3/ Applying effects, behaviours or modifying properties of the media.

If anyone would like to share their thoughts on these things, I would really
appreciate it.
I'm doing this as a Masters degree final project in interface design, and
if it is successful myself and the authors of the engine hope to release it as a complete app. for others to use.

all the best,

Ian.

[katascope]

Is this for a dual or single monitor system?

It makes all the difference in the world. Single monitor systems are obviously cheaper and can be used by more people. Dealing with the interface issues can be quite complex though.

I only know a few people who can write a proper VJ app that is single monitor based.

[stimuleye]

I just finished a masters at Leeds Met Uni doing a similar thing. I ended up using MAX for controlling framerates in real time synched to the audio using a Red federation beat extractor sending midi clock. works a treat! Director is pretty useful also (not sure about controlling framerates) depends just what you're trying to achieve, horeses for courses. Drawback with MAX is it is limited to QuickTime, and is Mac only.

[steeley]

Thanks for the comments-- some of the stuff we are using in the engine has been done in Director. We are also looking at doing a complete self-contained app. in RealBasic.
As regards monitors, It will probably support between 1 and 4.

[katascope]

Supporting between 1 and 4 monitors?

Can you explain how you intend to do that? I can't see the interface for 1 monitor being anything close to the interface for multiple. . . Maybe I'm missing something here.

[steeley]

Originally posted by katascope
Supporting between 1 and 4 monitors?

Can you explain how you intend to do that? I can't see the interface for 1 monitor being anything close to the interface for multiple. . . Maybe I'm missing something here.

We have been looking at doing a system that could use 4 graphics cards-e.g
2 preview screens, 1 main output, 1 palettes/browser/control screen. Or maybe
a different combination. 4 screens is not top of the priority list at the moment,
but could be done given reasonably powerful hardware.
You are right about single screen interfaces-Hard to get correct, but this is what
I want to attempt first.

[krokodril]

What does one really want of a program?

Personally most of my vids are from the old archive, only some live captures need to be mixed. I hardly use any real audio reaction( i emulate this,rythm is used, analyzing the sound does not help, i decide just what 'feeling'/colour? something has)

and still most fancy programs do not work for me
This is because i like themes,(so yes i need to browse)and i like to show them on more than one screen.

A truly worthwhile vj machine for me might in fact be a low resolution gear wich steers my other computers. besides this there should be midi output, to have a pick up for the lightshow

about the more than one screen thing.... ever seen a cool surrounding in a sf film.... not one,two,some but lotsa screens movements enz enz one screen still feels like a big tv

[KillingFrenzy]

*****,

You can use a live input as a texture on a 3d object in visualJockey. And then use midi control, mouse, or joystick to position it.

Multiple channels of live input -- no... but just put your mixer upstream of the live input, I suppose.
Resolution - If you throw enough horsepower at it, it will deliver pretty decent framerates at a decent resolution.

If what you're looking for is the ability to do whatever effects you're normally running, and then throw a generalized 3d position effect over it, the overlay function will allow you to do this in visualJockey.

With enough configuring, you can do some fairly impressive "routing" with visualJockey (or Max, PD, Etc... but framerates are slow)
The nice thing about this new generation of software is that in the same way that "non-linear" was applied to editing software, "non-linear" could be applied to routing techniques on software effects. You can steal inputs upstream or downstream, create multiple instances, and fool with feedback in ways that physical hardware just doesn't allow.

I've never been that interested in 3d, so I have a huge hole in my skillset when it comes to working with 3d content. With a proper understanding of 3d tools, creating configured effects like you're talking about above seems within the realm of existing software (though possibly a bit slow in hardware terms, for highest quality output)
I'm gaining more interest in 3d for just the reasons you list above, taking live input in live environments and sculpting video to configure to the space.

[PilotX]

Also, Midi in for us that use midi. One possibility for file selection is to use a midi controller to change the set of visuals that are in use, so file sets could be changed with the flick of a switch.

Not too worried about sequencing to be honest.
Am interested in *****s idea, but we usually do our effects on the clips beforehand and use hardware to affect live. so this is not too much of a bother for us.

Tom
Syzygy Visuals

[krezrock]

nato.0+55 qdraw 3d or open gl objects will do the trick. then use a collage, luma or alpha object to get transparency. i'm pretty sure you could track some objects or colors on the dancefloor to get a corner pin advantage.

[steeley]

Originally posted by krokodril
What does one really want of a program?


A good question... It seems this often depends on the environment and the performance(??)
you are trying to create.
I think that however many fantastic functions you have in a program, it must feel "nice to drive".
Some people find that certain software requires a lot of effort/concentration to operate when they are going full tilt at a gig.
If they have loads of media(video clips, still images, flash files) browsing and selecting
seems to slow things down. Also when software offers hundreds ways of modifying media, displaying all the choices and combinations to the user can be difficult, particularly on a small screen or single screen interface.
Bring on the 22" LCD touch panel...!

[Nema]

independent of if you are a user or a developer - the most powerful interfaces are given by visualJockey.
the C++ interface of visualJockey is actually nothing complex, and it is based on the experience of programmers that have been coding visuals since the amiga.
as a user, the whole interface of the editor offers you many possibilities that would take you years if you wanted to program them by yourself... ...it's all there, and it's so simple. it seems to me that it is just too complex for many users to really dive into it and to explore a real designable interface for fullscreenshows by dynamic variables.

[Bluelive]

It wont take years. :)
They wrote it themselves in less, and now the ideas are out there.
Sorry im a bit anoying, no beer, too much mmx.